Part 1: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
Part 1: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
© 2008 by Linda Moulton Howe
Copyright © 1999 - 2017 by Linda Moulton Howe.
All Rights Reserved.
This file is used with permission.
“In 1946-1947, the United States had a scientific mission
to Antarctica under Admiral Byrd and we had military interaction
there with aliens and their saucer craft, like a mini-war.
We lost all of our aircraft.”
- “Stein,” Former Army/CIA UFO Analyst
- Update: May 5, 2013 - On Friday, May 3, 2013, at the Citizen Hearing On Disclosure at the National Press Club in Washington, D. C., the brief videotaped interview with “Anonymous” is the same “Kewper” that I interviewed in May to June 1998 over some sixteen hours of phone and face-to-face audiotapes. “Anonymous” and “Kewper” are also the same “Stein” in this 20-part Earthfiles series. “Anonymous Kewper Stein” is very ill and wanted to finally put his face to his firsthand account he gave me and was threatened about because he described for me in great detail his CIA work on extraterrestrial matters in the late 1950s.
Original Earthfiles 20-part Interview with Former Army/CIA UFO Analyst based on 1998 transcripts first released by Linda Moulton Howe beginning August 27, 2008, Albuquerque, New Mexico - Ten years ago in April 1998, I received a phone call from a California resident who said he was an acquaintance of a man whose father-in-law had worked for the Central Intelligence Agency in the late 1950s and his work included E. T. and UFO investigations. The caller thought I should talk with the son-in-law to see if I could speak with the then 62-year-old father-in-law living in the southeastern United States whose health was deteriorating.
After a lengthy discussion with the son-in-law, S. D., about my investigative journalism career as a TV producer, documentary filmmaker, radio reporter and writer concerning subjects ranging from science and environment to earth mysteries that include the UFO phenomenon, S. D. said he would contact his father-in-law and let me know if he would talk with me — either on or off the record. I assured S. D. that I was willing to speak with his father-in-law in complete confidence, if necessary.
S. D. called back and gave me his father-in-law’s home number. On May 2, 1998, I dialed the number of the former CIA analyst and U. S. Army cryptographer who in this Earthfiles series I will call “Stein.” [ He is also “Anonymous” and “Kewper.”
The first phone conversation had more surprising details than I expected and I asked Stein if I could record-by-phone, without using his real name, so I could share his alleged experiences with the public on Dreamland and Coast to Coast AM, then hosted by Art Bell. Stein said as long as I didn’t reveal his real name and current geographical location or the specific military base in which he and others for the CIA analyzed UFO photographs and film that included autopsies of non-human beings, he would talk because he did not know how much longer he would be alive. But he did not want his surviving family to be jeopardized, so he wanted complete anonymity. Unfortunately, requests for anonymity have been too common in my long-time efforts to understand what the U.S. government knows about the agendas and interactions of non-human intelligences with planet Earth. It’s my understanding there has been a policy of strict denial in the interest of national security since 1947, after President Harry S. Truman signed a classified executive order to keep the public and media ignorant.
In early May 1998, with Stein's permission, I did share some excerpts of our phone-recorded interviews in my radio broadcasts with Art Bell on Dreamland and Coast to Coast. But soon after our first discussion, Stein received a tip from a long-time friend of his who worked for the phone company in his home town. The friend told Stein that his phone was tapped and wondered why, since Stein was retired and very ill.
Stein let me know the situation and agreed that I could visit him at his home and record his story. Even that secret effort backfired on Stein in a surprising and disturbing way that ended our discussions, but not before I had recorded many hours of his firsthand CIA knowledge. Now I am unfolding the whole experience here.
Now, it is ten years later in August 2008. I have been notified that “Kewper/Stein” died and I begin the following Real X-Files series of Stein's assertions that I cannot prove, but in the wake of Jim Marrs's latest book, Rise of the Fourth Reich, I think Stein's firsthand knowledge, experiences and comments are valuable to share as alleged firsthand accounts of 1950s CIA operations concerning extraterrestrial biological entities and their advanced technologies.
Phone Interview # 1
May 2, 1998
Linda Moulton Howe: “PLEASE TELL ME IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY THAT YOU WORKED FOR THE CIA BETWEEN 1957 AND 1960 ON TOP SECRET BLUE BOOK CASES FUNNELED TO THE CIA AND NOT TO THE PHONY PUBLIC BLUE BOOK VERSION?
Stein: “Yes, to me and my boss. It usually came directly to me.
[ Editor's Note: Muddying the waters in classic counterintelligence style, the CIA created in 1952 a phony UFO-debunking project designed only for media and public consumption and gave it the same name, Project Blue Book. That way, the CIA could use their public PR-Project Blue Book to condition the media and public to think there was nothing to UFOS and ETs, while secretly and seriously investigating extraterrestrial biological entities on Earth. The CIA “ended” the public Project Blue Book in 1969, while continuing to monitor and investigate extraterrestrial interactions with Earth to this day. This upside down, bassackwards world of counterintelligence misinformation is a “hall of mirrors with a quicksand floor” deliberately designed to divert public and media attention from the truth while the government persists in its policies of lies and denials. ]
WHO WAS YOUR BOSS?
Anthony Barden was the name he used in the CIA.
IS HE STILL ALIVE?
No, in the late 1950s when I was working for him, he was in his sixties then. He died in the 1970s.
WAS HE MILITARY OR CIVILIAN?
He was civilian.
WHAT WAS HIS TITLE WITHIN THE CIA?
He was in charge of the southeastern United States. They had different people in charge of different parts of the country. Somebody else had the northeastern; someone else had southwestern and someone else had northwestern.
DID YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THE CIA WOULD HAVE THE UNITED STATES DIVIDED UP INTO REGIONS WHEN IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOCUSED INTERNATIONALLY AND NOT DOMESTICALLY?
They did the regional divisions to cut down on travel time. There was someone in charge of the entire CIA at that time. [From 1953 to 1961, the CIA Director was Allen W. Dulles.]
The 16-foot-diameter granite seal in the lobby of the original
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) headquarters building,
Langley, Virginia. Source: Wikipedia.
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia - In September 1947, President Harry S. Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947, which created the Central Intelligence Agency.
List of Directors of Central Intelligence (chronological order):
1. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, 1947-1950
2. Walter Bedell Smith, 1950-1953
3. Allen W. Dulles 1953–1961
4. John McCone 1961-1965
5. William Raborn 1965–1966
6. Richard M. Helms 1966–1973
7. James R. Schlesinger 1973
8. William E. Colby 1973–1976
9. George H. W. Bush 1976–1977
10. Stansfield Turner 1977–1981
11. William J. Casey 1981–1987
12. William H. Webster 1987–1991
13. Robert M. Gates 1991–1993
14. R. James Woolsey 1993–199515
15. John M. Deutch 1995–1996
16. George J. Tenet 1997–2004
17. Porter J. Goss 2004–2005
18. Michael Hayden 2006-present
Allen W. Dulles, DCI, 1953 - 1961: The CIA expanded rapidly with unchecked power under Director of Central Intelligence Allen W. Dulles. After the 1961 Bay of Pigs debacle in Cuba, President John F. Kennedy tried to exercise greater supervision over the CIA, but was assassinated on November 22, 1963, perhaps by the very agency he had tried to control. See 080308Earthfiles about burned memos.]
Linda Moulton Howe: “WASN’T THE FBI SUPPOSED TO BE FOCUSED DOMESTICALLY AND THE CIA INTERNATIONALLY?
Stein: “That was the general picture, but in the U. S., the CIA had the country divided up four ways. We also had an overseas administrative person as well as a European head. And, of course, we had spies in Russia and so on.
DID YOU EVER SEE OR HEAR THE WORDS MAJESTIC 12, MAJIC OR MJ-12?
That sounds familiar to the paperwork I read.
DO YOU REMEMBER IN THE 1950S DOCUMENTS AND PHOTOGRAPHS YOU RECEIVED CONCERNING UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS, DID YOUR FILES INCLUDE UNUSUAL ANIMAL DEATHS?
No, nothing about animal deaths in the Blue Book files funneled to me and my boss. What did stand out in the classified documents I saw was about a UFO crash on a ranch in New Mexico in 1947. The document said that it was a German-built saucer that had alien hieroglyphics on the outside and inside. They found out it was German when they did reverse engineering on it. There was something in the craft that linked to being built by Nazi Germany in 1938, I think. But, there were also aliens on board. One was still alive, one was dying and, I think, one or two were dead.
DID THEY HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THOSE BEINGS?
I saw photographs in our classified work at the military base in the southeast. But also, I had a TOP SECRET White House clearance and when I was in Washington, D. C. at CIA headquarters, if I had time I would go into the library and read up on a lot of those things. I used my security card to zip through the lock and go right in. That's where I read about the Nazi Germany saucer constructions.
DID THE REPORT ABOUT THE NEW MEXICO CRASH DESCRIBE THE BEINGS?
Yes, it did. You probably saw the film of the alien autopsy that came out in the past five years or so.
THE ONE WITH THE SIX FINGERS AND SIX TOES?
Yes, six fingers and toes – the film showed the operating room and they were doing the autopsy. Stein saw another autopsy film with his CIA colleagues in the southeastern Army base that also had six fingers and six toes, but the brain was different than the Santilli film described below.
[ Editor's Note: In 1995, British producer, Ray Santilli, publicly announced he had purchased from the original military cameraman some autopsy footage of two 6-fingered, non-human entities retrieved from a crashed UFO that Santilli said the cameraman dated between May 31 to June 2, 1947, which allegedly was a recovery operation at a crash site southwest of Socorro, New Mexico, near the Plains of San Augustin (west of Roswell and not between Corona and Roswell - an example of the persistent confusion about geographic locations and timelines for UFO crashes, which results from deliberate government insider efforts to hide UFO crash dates and locations).
Linda Moulton Howe was told in 1995 that the disc with the 6-fingered humanoids crashed on May 31, 1947, southeast of Aragon, New Mexico, and 5 to 10 miles north of Elk Mountain, at the western end of the Plains of San Agustin, which would be southwest of Socorro.
Santilli first presented his film to an invited audience of media representatives, UFOlogists, and other dignitaries at the Museum of London on May 5, 1995. The footage, which also includes the interior of a tent where a military man is holding hand-imprinted panels and I-beams embossed with Greek-looking symbols.
One of two humanoids with six fingers and six toes in alleged 1947 autopsy
footage filmed by U. S. military cameraman after extraterrestrial biological entities
were retrieved from disc southwest of Socorro, New Mexico. Linda Moulton Howe
was told the disc crashed May 31, 1947, southeast of Aragon and 5 to 10 miles
north of Elk Mountain on the western end of the Plains of San Agustin.
Photographs provided by Ray Santilli, Merlin Productions,
London, England © 1996 by Orbital Media Ltd.
Humanoid's six-fingered hand examined by white gowned and gloved surgeon.
Humanoid's six-toed foot next to surgeon's gloved hand.
Excerpts of Santilli's original footage were shown on television in Alien Autopsy – Fact or Fiction, a program broadcast by the Fox TV network in 1995. Oddly, right before the broadcast of Alien Autopsy, Santilli announced that there was a mixture of actual historic footage mixed with recreated footage. But Santilli asserted that the autopsy footage and photographs were real. See my book, Glimpses of Other Realities, Vol. II: High Strangeness in the Earthfiles Shop for photographs and details.]
And I remember the control panel guidance system (Santilli tent footage) was like a hand-guidance system on the UFO. The photographs I saw, they used fingertip-control for guidance. [ U. S. Army Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso also described hand-imprinted control panels retrieved from one or more downed non-human craft in his important 1997 book, The Day After Roswell.]
Panels with depressions of six-fingered handprints allegedly found
with six-fingered humanoids in May 31 to June 2, 1947, recovery operation at
crash site southwest of Socorro, New Mexico. Linda Moulton Howe was given the date
of May 31, 1947, between Aragon, New Mexico, and Elk Mountain at the western end
of the Plains of San Agustin, as the disc crash site where 6-fingered and 6-toed
extraterrestrial biological entities were retrieved and autopsied at either
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, or the Naval Medical Center in Bethesda,
Maryland. Photograph from 16mm film © 1996 by Orbital Media Ltd.
YOU READ ABOUT THE HAND-IMPRINTED PANELS IN THE 1950S?
Yes, I did. The CIA report also said there were ‘alien hieroglyphics.’
DID THE CIA REPORT GO INTO WHY THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOIDS WOULD BE INSIDE A CRAFT THAT WAS ALLEGEDLY MADE IN GERMANY IN 1938?
No, but I heard other information about the Germans in 1917 and 1927 when they had their first saucer vehicle that could be flown. The Germans had supposedly contacted aliens at the time through two mediums they had working with them. It was the Vril Society that worked on the original prototype model they made and flew. [ See 081208 Earthfiles about Nazi Die Glocke.]
WHAT WAS THE VRIL SOCIETY?
It’s a pretty old society in Germany. I believe my grandfather belonged to it in the 1800s. We came from Germany and were part of the royal family over there at that time.
Vril was a society that had different goals at different times. In the 1800s, Vril was looking at various industrial projects and engines. In 1917, the Vril had a big meeting and decided at that time to go into alternate power sources.
DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE THAT THE VRIL INSPIRATION FOR THE DISK CRAFT CAME FROM WORKING DIRECTLY WITH THE 6-FINGERED EXTRATERRESTRIALS?
Yes, if I remember correctly, when Vril was building that first craft, the Vril had one or two of the aliens that worked with them in Germany where they fired rockets from Peenemunde. The documents I read in Washington said that’s where the first Vril vehicle was made.
HAS ANY DOCUMENT OR SOURCE YOU’VE BEEN EXPOSED TO INDICATED WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP WAS BETWEEN THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS AND OUR CIVILIZATION AND HOW FAR BACK IT GOES?
I did not read any history like that back in the 1950s.
DID THE DOCUMENTS EVER GIVE ANY INDICATION ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF THE 6-FINGERED TYPES?
What I read about the Roswell situation, apparently those 6-fingered aliens were supposed to be from two planets orbiting Aldebaran, the biggest star in the constellation Taurus.
DID YOU EVER SEE ANY REFERENCE TO ZETA RETICULI 1 AND 2? No, I don’t recall, but it’s over forty years ago. IF YOU WERE IN THE CIA AND WERE READING REPORTS, INCLUDING ONE ABOUT A NEW MEXICO CRASH IN 1947 THAT INVOLVED THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS AND THE CRAFT WAS TRACED BACK TO GERMAN CONSTRUCTION IN 1938 UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THOSE BEINGS, DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE ABOUT OUR GOVERNMENT CONTACTING GERMANS TO DISCUSS THE E. T. ISSUE?
No, I was very surprised at what I was reading and didn’t see any other tie-ins with Germany. But, I know we ran across the saucers and their beings in 1948.
Apparently, we (American OSS and British MI-5 and MI-6) learned that the Germans in 1938 moved all the saucer crafts they had underground in Germany to Argentina and Antarctica.”
Nazis raise the swastika flag in 1938 to mark the territory of
Neu-Schabenland occupied by Germany in Antarctica. Source: UFOs in Antarctica.
Operation Highjump, 1946-1947, Antarctica
Stein: “In 1946-1947, the United States had a scientific mission to Antarctica under Admiral Byrd and we had military interaction there with aliens and their saucer craft, like a mini-war. We lost all of our aircraft.
[ Editor's Note: Wikipedia - “The fourth Admiral Edward Byrd expedition, Operation Highjump (OpHjp), was the largest Antarctic expedition ever mounted. The massive Antarctic task force ordered by U. S. Navy Secretary James Forrestal included 4,700 men, the flagship Mount Olympus, the aircraft carrier Philippine Sea, 13 ships, six helicopters, six flying boats, two seaplane tenders and fifteen other aircraft. Officially titled the United States Navy Antarctic Developments Program, 1946-47, Operation Highjump was organized by Rear Admiral Richard E. Byrd in Antarctica under the command of Richard Cruzen. OpHjp was launched on August 26, 1946, and abruptly terminated without explanation in late February 1947.
By 1938, Richard E. Byrd had headed three Antarctic expeditions
and wrote about his “alone” experiences. Photograph of Ace Star paperback,
Alone, reprint © 1938 by Richard E. Bryd and provided by Wikipedia.
From December 10, 1946, to March 13, 1947, Sennet (SS-408) participated in Operation Highjump, the third
Admiral Richard E. Byrd Antarctic Expedition.
USN photo courtesy of Arctic Submarine Laboratory.
“The armada arrived in the Ross Sea on December 31, 1946, and made aerial explorations of an area half the size of the United States, recording ten new mountain ranges. The major area covered was the eastern coastline of Antarctica from 150 degrees east to the Greenwich meridian. The expedition was terminated abruptly at the end of February 1947, six months early, the entire remaining armada returning immediately to the United States. The early termination of the mission was never explained. (Howe's emphasis)”
“Operation Highjump has become a topic among UFO conspiracy theorists, who claim it was a covert US military operation to conquer alleged secret underground Nazi facilities in Antarctica and capture the German Vril flying discs, or Thule mercury-powered spaceship prototypes.” ]
DID THE DOCUMENT SAY WHETHER THE ANTARCTIC SAUCERS HAD BOTH GERMANS AND 6-FINGERED TYPES IN THEM? OR JUST THE 6-FINGERED TYPES?
We didn’t capture anything and never shot anything down, so they had no idea who was flying the saucers, except there were references to the Nazis. It was after the end of WWII that we had the altercation. The British had come up with photographs of the saucer craft in the 1930s, and so we knew Germany had the saucer craft with ‘laser guns’ on them. Hitler actually sent out all the craft that they had to Argentina and Antarctica apparently to make sure when he started WWII none of them would be captured. Hitler always mentioned his top secret weapons and everyone thought it was the V-2 rockets. But it appears the V-2 rockets were only a side show to the saucer technology being developed.
BUT IF HITLER WAS DESPERATE TO WIN AND TAKE OVER THE WORLD, WHY WOULDN’T HE HAVE USED THOSE DISCS?
It had something to do with those 6-fingered entities retrieved from the 1947 crash around Roswell.
There was another kind of being, too. My boss and I took a trip to Area 51 in Nevada. There, I saw an alien through a glass window, but I never went in.
WAS IT ALIVE?
Yes, it was alive. My boss went in and said the being did not speak at all, it was only telepathic. My boss said he would think of a question, but the being would already answer it before he even spoke the question out loud. The being could read my boss’s mind.
WHAT DID THE BEING LOOK LIKE?
That one was like a typical ‘Grey,’ as they are called today, with the large eyes and narrow, pointed chin, and small nose, only ear canals without ear lobes. A very frail, skinny-type of body. The being was about 4.5 to 5 feet all.
DO YOU REMEMBER THE EYES?
Dark, looked like it was wearing sunglasses.
THIS IS A DIFFERENT DESCRIPTION THAN THE 6-FINGERED ONES.
Yes, the 6-fingered ones looked almost like – according to the photos I saw – they looked like small human beings as far as the roundness of the face.
SO YOU HAD EXPOSURE TO TWO TYPES OF NON-HUMANS?
Yes, that would be true as far as seeing photographs of the 6-fingered ones, which was the extent of my exposure on that first type that were supposed to have been in a New Mexico crash.
The way we got that Grey alien – and I was told there some others, too – is that the saucers were crashing. And the reason the saucers were crashing was that in the 1950s, we came out with a much stronger radar system for the USAF bases and control towers. Apparently, the stronger radar signals were interfering with the saucer propulsion in some way.
After the early 1950s, maybe the aliens figured out how to counter our radar, because after a few years, they weren’t crashing like they were.
ANY INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE THE SPINDLY GREYS CAME FROM?
No, not from my CIA work. IF YOU WENT WITH YOUR BOSS TO AREA 51 TO LOOK AT A 4.5-FOOT-TALL, SPINDLY NON-HUMAN AND YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY READ ABOUT AND SEEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF 6-FINGERED, MORE MUSCULAR BEINGS, WOULDN’T YOU HAVE ASKED?
Yes, I asked if this was a different type and the only thing they said was that the Area 51 being was different from the 6-fingered types. I understood that they had not run across more 6-fingered types since a crash at Roswell. And there were photographs from an autopsy on the 6-fingered ones that is like the one shown on television recently (Santilli) They showed an autopsy on one of those beings that had a large wound on one of its legs and I saw that same leg damage in photos we had at the military base.
WHAT YEARS DID YOU WORK FOR THE CIA?
1957 to 1960. When my 4-year-term was up, because I was actually in the military and came into the CIA operation through the back door.
WHAT WAS YOUR RANK AND MILITARY BRANCH?
I was a Lieutenant in the U. S. Army Signal Corps teaching at a southern military base.
DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU HAD A CLEARANCE TO SEE REPORTS ABOUT EXTRATERRESTRIALS?
Originally, I had just a TOP SECRET clearance because I was teaching classified cryptography, radio operations and cryptography to Signal Corps officers. Then I started teaching all the NATO officers that they would bring over. I had European and Asiatic officers who came from Laos and Vietnam and Cambodia at that time. So, I had a TOP SECRET clearance.
My boss, Anthony Barden, was involved with the classified Signal Corps school. He was actually in charge of the school for the military. but as a civilian CIA man in charge of the military school. He was in the background, but he was actually head of the CIA for the southeastern United States.
Then the CIA got more and more involved with Project Blue Book and when Anthony Barden was up in Washington, D. C. one time, the CIA assigned him to work on the cases that the U. S. Air Force could not explain.
Those were the cases where the eyewitnesses were very credible such as state patrol officers and military officers. Those cases would be sent to Anthony Barden. The only thing the public Project Blue Book kept up in Washington were the explainable cases. That’s why Project Blue Book never really had anything solid in it when it was cancelled. My boss and I and our unit of a couple dozen men were seeing the real UFO photos and documents collected from Project Blue Book and funneled to the CIA.
BY THIS TIME, 1957 TO 1960 – YOU SAID THAT THE HARRY S. TRUMAN ADMINISTRATION HAD ALREADY BEEN DEALING WITH WHAT THEY CONSIDERED TO BE EXTRATERRESTRIAL BEINGS.
Yes, they were.
WHY WERE YOU INVOLVED IN AN INVESTIGATION OF UNEXPLAINED BLUE BOOK CASES WHEN THE GOVERNMENT ALREADY KNEW EXTRATERRESTRIALS WERE INVOLVED WITH OUR PLANET?
That’s true that our government knew already, but they were trying to find out more. We had staff members in our unit that were going out and interviewing eyewitnesses.
THAT MEANS WE REALLY DID NOT KNOW WHAT THE EXTRATERRESTRIALS WERE UP TO?
That’s absolutely true. Even Truman asked what the aliens were doing here? Where do they go? Where do they come from?
HOW LONG WAS THAT BEING ALIVE AND KEPT AT AREA 51?
As far as I know, the being was still alive there when I was working for the CIA (1957-1960). I don’t know if he died, or his species came and got him, or what.
There was one report that was not very clear, but I read that a large craft did come over Area 51 in Nevada. The rest of the report pages had been taken out so I don't know what happened.
NOTHING ABOUT THE TYPE OF BEINGS IN THE LARGE CRAFT?
No, nothing like that. It looked like someone had gone through the report and pulled all the important data out.
One of the reports I read said the CIA had ‘silenced’ – they didn’t say killed – about half a dozen people over a period of three to four years after the Roswell crash. They had threatened some and ‘silenced’ some of them, is what the report said.
DID YOU EVER HAVE ASK YOUR BOSS IF THERE WERE 6-FINGERED BEINGS ASSOCIATED WITH SAUCER CRAFT IN GERMANY IN 1938, PRIOR TO WORLD WAR II, DID THAT MEAN THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS WERE HELPERS TO GERMANY?
They were helpers to Germany.
DID YOU EVER TALK WITH YOUR BOSS ABOUT WHY THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS WORKED WITH GERMANY AND THEN WOULD BE RETRIEVED IN A U.S. CRASH?
All I knew firsthand was a report reference to the German round aerial ships. And I knew Germany had some and transported them some how to Argentina and Antarctica.
SO, THE DOCUMENTS YOU SAW WITH YOUR OWN EYES BETWEEN 1957 TO 1960 WERE ONLY ABOUT THE BEINGS ON A RANCH IN NEW MEXICO WITHOUT YOUR REMEMBERING A SPECIFIC RANCH LOCATION, ONLY ROSWELL?
Yes, ranch in Roswell area.
THERE WERE PHOTOS WITH THE DOCUMENTS YOU READ?
Yes, only photographs of the 6-fingered beings on an autopsy table.
WHEN YOU SAW THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS AND SAW THE REPORT, DID YOU ASK YOUR BOSS FOR MORE INFORMATION?
Basically, we were in the same boat, my boss and I. We read the same materials. We were both trying to get more information, but weren’t able to get hold of anyone else. If someone contacts you and says, ‘I know the whole story and know everything that’s going on.’ That person would be a story teller, a liar, because that’s not the way the CIA operates. Everybody working on the same project gets only assignments in certain areas, so you can never say you have the entire picture.
YOU WERE IN THE EISENHOWER ADMINISTRATION?
DID YOU KNOW LT. COL. PHILIP J. CORSO (author of The Day After Roswell.)
I had heard of him, but I did not know him.
AND GENERAL ARTHUR TRUDEAU? (Head of Army’s R & D in Pentagon, hand-picked by President Dwight Eisenhower)
ARE YOU AWARE OF LT. COL. PHILIP J. CORSO’S BOOK, THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL?
I have not read the book.
WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHY THERE IS SUCH A STRICT POLICY OF DENIAL ABOUT AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL PRESENCE ON THIS PLANET?
I could never figure that out myself. It’s a cover-up that started and just can’t stop, that type of thing. I think it all goes back to the 1930s when the Nazis got all the saucer craft out of Germany and worked on the V-1s and V-2s. Then it was the end of the war followed by the crash or crashes in Roswell. Then in early 1947, they had the battle with the flying saucers and what they termed the ‘Nazis’ in Antarctica.
My boss’s theory on the whole thing was that we lost that battle down in Antarctica and lost all our airplanes, which were no competition for the flying saucers. We couldn’t do a thing to counteract the ‘laser cannons’ on the saucer craft and the saucer craft could maneuver so rapidly and easily that we could not even shoot at them. My boss and I were discussing this with some other people that the Marshall Plan started about that same time. We felt there was some contact between the Nazis and Argentina and our government at that time. We felt that was why the Marshall Plan started to re-build Europe. We had to in order to keep the Nazis in Argentina happy. It was almost like we won the war, but later surrendered by paying for the war.
IF WE LOST A LOT OF PLANES TO DISCS WITH ‘LASER CANNONS’ THAT WERE BEING OPERATED BY THE NAZIS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS, WHY WOULD THAT ENCOUNTER HAVE BEEN CONFINED TO ANTARCTICA? WHY WOULDN’T THE NAZIS AND THE BEINGS HAVE FLOWN ALL OVER THE WORLD IN THOSE SAME SAUCERS KNOCKING EVERY PLANE OUT OF THE SKY AND TAKING OVER ANYWAY?
I think when this thing happened down in Antarctica that beat us so badly, the U.S. started working on the Marshall Plan to re-build Europe and that was almost like a peace treaty thing – the aliens would not touch our cities if we re-built Europe.
THE MARSHALL PLAN WAS A CAPITULATION TO THE NAZIS AND THE EXTRATERRESTRIALS?
Yes, I think so. BUT THAT DOES NOT EXPLAIN - IF THEY HAD THAT KIND OF OVERWHELMING TECHNOLOGY, WHY WOULDN’T THEY HAVE SIMPLY TAKEN OVER THE WORLD ANYWAY?
I don’t know.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY GERMAN NAZIS LOST WWII IF THERE WERE 6-FINGERED EXTRATERRESTRIAL BEINGS THAT HAD TECHNOLOGY AND WERE TEACHING THE NAZIS HOW TO BUILD THEIR ADVANCED AERIAL CRAFT. THOSE SAME BEINGS COULD DO WHATEVER THEY WANTED TO ON THIS PLANET. SO, WHY DID THEY NOT MOVE AGAINST THE UNITED STATES, ENGLAND, AUSTRALIA AND THE ALLIES IF THEY DEMONSTRATED IN ANTARCTICA THEY COULD TAKE OUT OF THE SKY ANY PLANE THEY WANTED TO?
I don’t know.
DID YOU EVER SEE ANY HARD TEXT IN DOCUMENTS BETWEEN 1957 TO 1960 ABOUT AGENDAS OF THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS OR THE SMALLER, GREY SPINDLY ONES?
No, the only reference I saw in the documents boiled down to, ‘We would like to know what they are really up to.” I have seen that comment, or something along those lines, dozens of times.
WHEN DID YOU LEAVE THE ARMY?
1960. YOU LEFT THE CIA AND THE ARMY AT THE SAME TIME?
Yes. There were 24 of us in our CIA/Army group at that time and there were new people come in. What happens in the CIA is that you don’t really retire. It’s like an ancient gladiator group – you don’t have to worry about old age and retirement. My boss died in the mid-1970s. When I first got into it through the back door by helping him and getting a TOP SECRET clearance, I never used my real name with the CIA. I had a cover name that I used. That's the only reason I got out – you might say – alive in that early time of 1960 after four years – is because of the name I used. Two weeks after I got out, what the CIA was doing at that time was they had a group that would pick up derelicts that had died downtown near our military base of alcoholism or over-dosing on drugs. That clandestine group put my CIA name and others identities on those dead people. Then the body or bodies would be cremated and the ashes scattered somewhere so no one could dig up any body again. My CIA name and identity ended up ‘dead’ a couple of weeks after I left. That name died.
Of the 24 people who were in that CIA unit, my boss died of natural causes and I got out, but I was the only one who survived out of that group. The others never made it out because they started getting involved with spying in Russia and Turkey and they were all killed.
I managed to get out through the help of my boss, but my wife never knew anything about this until about one year ago (in 1997). Everything we worked on was classified for thirty or thirty-five years. So, by the mid 1990s, the classifying was over and you have a lot of people now coming out, like that military officer who wrote the book (Army Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso's The Day After Roswell © 1997 ). Some are talking now because they feel they can do it safely.”