Part 10: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
© 2008 by Linda Moulton Howe
Copyright © 1999 - 2017 by Linda Moulton Howe.
All Rights Reserved.
This file is used with permission.
“You’re going to see some highly classified equipment.
At this time, we have some saucer craft that have been gathered
in the United States from New Mexico and we have other craft
that have been gathered from around the world.”
- “Col. Jim,” USAF, Area 51, Nevada
November 27, 2008 Albuquerque, New Mexico - My June 29, 1998, interview with Stein at his Florida home continues from Part 9. We talked more about the discrepancies between the Santilli 1995 TV broadcast of a 6-fingered being versus the non-human autopsy film that Stein watched with his CIA boss, Anthony Barden, and twenty-four other men in the CIA's highly classified Project Blue Book group at the military base in the southeastern United States in July 1958. Stein also described more details about his trip with Anthony Barden and three other CIA colleagues to Area 51, Nellis AFB, Nevada, to see “saucer craft” and the living, grey-colored, non-human entity.
HOWE: “COULD YOU SEE THE FACE OF THE BEING CLEARLY DURING THE AUTOPSY?
Stein: No, not really, because when they had cut the throat, they had pushed the face kind of back and they had the camera down fairly low showing the chest. You could see the bottom of the face, but I think that was all.
BEFORE THEY STARTED TO DO THE CUTTING, DID THEY SHOW A CLOSE-UP ON THE NON-HUMAN FACE?
No, the only close-up on the face was when they were cutting the skull. They had the face at an angle at that time as they were cutting around with the mechanism they used to saw through the skull.
COULD YOU SEE THE EYES?
Yes, and it was a large eye with white or light grey around the eye. The being looked like the photographs in your book (pages 55 to 61 in Glimpses of Other Realities, Vol. II: High Strangeness.) But I never saw anything in the autopsy film we were shown at the southeastern military base that looked like black lenses over the eyes. The photos on pages 55, 56 and the lower images on page 61 are like the being we saw autopsied.
WHAT EXACTLY IS THE SAME IN THE PHOTOS I HAVE FROM THE SANTILLI BROADCAST COMPARED TO WHAT YOU SAW IN THE AUTOPSY FILM IN JULY 1958?
The size of the body, the muscle structure, the ears, the shape of the face and head. But no solid black eyes (or lenses).
WHAT ABOUT PLATES 21 AND 22 ON PAGE 56 OF MY BOOK?
Well, I recognize the being with the damaged leg that you can see in both Plates 21 and 22.
Surgery Room Different in Film Stein
Saw Versus Santilli TV Broadcast
ARE YOU SEEING ANY IMAGE THAT YOU REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY FROM THE AUTOPSY FILM YOU SAW?
The table structure is different in the Santilli images compared to what we were shown. The Santilli images show the knives and cutting things in a different place. In the film I saw, the tray was up against the wall and there definitely was no telephone like you see hanging on the wall in the Santilli film. The surgeon (in autopsy film screened at southeastern military base) had a tray behind him with all kinds of cutting tools on it, a tray on wheels.
6-fingered and 6-toed humanoid allegedly retrieved from the crash of an unidentified
aerial vehicle, described by Ray Santilli as southwest of Socorro, New Mexico, in 1947,
not between Corona and Roswell. 16mm frames provided by Ray Santilli of Merlin
Productions, London, England © 1996 by Orbital Media Ltd.
DID YOU SEE ANY IMAGES IN THE AUTOPSY FILM YOU SCREENED THAT FOCUSED CLOSE-UPS ON THE 6-FINGERED HAND AND 6-TOED FOOT, AS IN THE SANTILLI FILM AND PHOTOS? [ See Earthfiles Stein Part 2.]
The hand with the six fingers looks familiar, but I don’t recall the surgeon holding up the hand to designate the six fingers. When I counted the fingers in the autopsy film that we saw, the arm was just laying down like this (flat on table). I don’t remember the surgeon’s hands near the fingers and toes.
WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT DEFINITELY STATED FOUR BEINGS HAD BEEN RETRIEVED? [ Howe has other information not from Stein that says the fourth being was found alive and that's why only three bodies were lying on the wooden palette, including one with a badly damaged right leg.] See: 031706Earthfiles.
I believe, if I remember correctly, that Anthony Barden told us there were four bodies. But I read through the film instructions after the meeting and it did not state how many bodies. I asked Anthony and he said that when he was at the Langley facility in the early spring or summer when they told him he would be doing this autopsy screening, they went over some material at that time that showed him details about the Roswell crash and there were four beings. But we only saw three in the autopsy film.
IN THE FILM YOU SCREENED, DID YOU SEE THE DISSECTION/AUTOPSY OF ONLY ONE BEING?
Yes, only one.
SO, EVERYTHING YOU SAW AND EVERYTHING THAT’S BEEN ON TV COULD BE VALID, DONE IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AT DIFFERENT TIMES?
BUT WHAT IS PUZZLING, IF THERE WERE BLACK LENSES OVER THE ALIEN EYES – WHICH EVEN LT. COL. PHILP J. CORSO SAID HE HAD INFORMATION ABOUT – WHY WOULD THE BLACK LENSES BE OFF THE EYES OF THE THREE BEINGS LYING ON THE PALETTE IN THE AIRCRAFT HANGAR?
That’s hard to say. It could be that someone had already removed them for an unknown reason to study them.
Large whites of eyes are revealed after the surgeon lifted off black lenses in Santilli
version of non-human autopsy film. 16mm frames provided by Ray Santilli
of Merlin Productions, London, England © 1996 by Orbital Media Ltd.
DID YOU HAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT JULY 1947 WAS THE FIRST RETRIEVAL OF THE FOUR BEINGS?
Yes, I did. That might not be true, but Anthony Barden and I thought these were the first beings picked up and that other ones (Greys?) came later the same year or another year.
Non-Human Protruding Bellies
IN THE AUTOPSY FILM YOU SAW, AFTER THEY OPENED UP THE CHEST AND REMOVED THAT FIRST LARGE ORGAN, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THEY SHOWED OR REMOVED FROM THE DISTENDED BELLY AREA?
There was nothing that resembled intestines at all. It was just a bunch of smaller organs. One looked a little bit like our kidneys, only a little wider and bigger. But there was nothing there that I saw in 1958 that really resembled 100% any human organs of any kind.
DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING UNDER THE PROTRUDING BELLY?
No. I remember when the surgeon opened it up, he started taking out different organs, differently shaped organs. Nothing stands out specifically.
NO ROUND THING RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE OF THE PROTRUDING BELLY? No. THAT ROUND ORGAN IS DEFINITELY IN THE SANTILLI DISSECTION/AUTOPSY FILM THAT WAS BROADCAST ON TV?
No, I don’t remember any round organ in the belly.
No Sexual Organs - Are the Beings Cloned?
DID THEY SHOW ANY GYNECOLOGICAL EXAMINATION IN THE SLIT OPENING OF ANY OF THE BEINGS IN THE AREA WE WOULD CONSIDER TO BE THE PUBIC REGION? [ Santilli had film allegedly of exam.]
No, nothing along that line at all. They just said they could not tell (sex differences). Anthony Barden said in the introduction that they could not tell if they were male or female in the three beings.
DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING THAT RESEMBLED PURE WHITE TENDRILS?
What do you mean, tendrils?
SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE VERY WHITE IN THE BLACK AND WHITE FILM THAT HAS WHITE TENDRILS COMING OFF IT?
No, I don’t remember anything like that.
WAS THERE ANY MENTION OF BELLY BUTTONS OR LACK OF BELLY BUTTONS?
Nothing was mentioned that I recall.
THERE WERE NO BELLY BUTTONS ON THE BEINGS IN THE SANTILLI FILM IN 1995, WHICH IMPLIED THAT THE BEINGS WERE CLONED.
DID THEY SHOW IN THE AUTOPSY FILM THAT YOU SAW ANY EXAMINATION OF THE LEG WOUND? No. But I did see a leg wound in the right leg (like Santilli photos). WAS IT A WIDE SHOT BEFORE THE AUTOPSY IN THE FILM YOU SAW?
No, the only wide shot we saw was the three beings lying on the pallets.
DID YOU SEE A WOUNDED LEG ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE FILM?
No. JUST IN THAT WIDE SHOT?
Yes. I saw one of them had the wounded leg and the other ones did not.
DID YOU EVER SEE THE SURGEONS TAKE OUT OF THE NON-HUMAN BODIES ANY ORGAN OR OBJECT THAT RESEMBLED A THIMBLE?
A thimble? No. [ Santilli film shows unidentified thimble-shaped object during dissection/autopsy.]
WERE THERE ANY SHOTS IN THE AUTOPSY THAT SHOWED ANYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM BESIDES THE TWO SURGEONS WORKING ON THE AUTOPSY/DISSECTION?
When there was a change to the shot that showed the window in the door that showed a dark grey sky, they had a clock on the wall that was kind of a square, wooden clock with a good sized frame around it. I didn’t see any cords coming down. I remember that on the wall.
The clock was on the left hand wall. In the side view when I saw the window, I could see one of the doctors at that time and he was facing the camera more (the other doctor was facing another angle), but he had a mask on his face and some kind of thing around his head, so the only thing you could see were his eyes.
Yes, I think he did have glasses on. I don’t know if they were protective glasses, but they looked like thick glasses – like maybe he had bad eyesight or something.
OR THEY WERE BEING USED TO MAGNIFY DURING THE AUTOPSY PROCEDURE?
Yes, that could be.
More About Non-Human Brain
AFTER CUTTING THE BEING OPEN AND LIFTING OUT THE VARIOUS ORGANS, DID THE PROCEDURE THEN SWITCH TO THE BRAIN?
Yes. I don’t remember them taking everything out of the being, but they took a lot of organs out of the abdomen area and around it, but it seems like there was something left in there. And then they started on the head. And just above his eyebrows is where they cut his head all the way around and opened up the skull. When they opened the skullcap up, it did not look as thick as our human skulls. Human skulls are pretty thick and it was not that thick. But the skull cap itself when they sat it down on the edge of the table, it could stand by itself and was still a skullcap, so it was thick enough for that.
THEN YOU’RE LOOKING AT THE BRANCHES WITH LOBES THAT WERE MORE OF A GREY COLOR AND NOT BLACK OR DARK IN THE BLACK AND WHITE MOTION PICTURE FILM?
WHAT DID THE SURGEONS DO? DID THEY CUT OUT A LOBE OR BRANCHES?
No, they held the opened head toward the camera so you could see the two hemispheres of the brain. But they did not take the brain out of the skull. They left the brain where it was. Then they made another cut down by the ear like they were trying to see the inner ear, maybe in respect to the eye so they could see from the brain to the eye as far as the visual connection in the brain – something like that.
WAS THERE ANY SOUND AT ALL?
No, no sound whatsoever.
SO, SILENT FILM. DO YOU HAVE ANY MEMORY OF THE LAST SCENES ON THE FILM YOU SAW?
It was the scalp being cut off and the surgeons holding up the head so we could see the two brain hemispheres. Then they started cutting by the ear and toward the eye and inspecting with little instruments of some kind, kind of probing through the brain. It looked like they were trying to see how the brain was connected to the eyes and ears. Basically that was the end of the autopsy film we saw.
WAS THE FILM GOING AND THEN JUST STOPPED?
Yeah, the camera kind of zoomed back real fast and was shut off. That was it. There was no wording on the end as far as explaining anything.
AFTER THE FILM RAN OUT OF THE PROJECTOR, WHAT DID ANTHONY BARDEN DO?
He said, ‘Well, this is it. This is the first time I’ve seen this.’
WHAT WAS HIS REACTION TO IT?
He said that he was surprised at the brain and at the internal organs and that the beings were neither male nor female.
He asked me, ‘Stein, how do you think they reproduce?’ And I said, ‘They lay on top of a Xerox machine!’ (laughs)
DID BARDEN EVER HAVE MORE INFORMATION FROM THE CIA OR ANYONE ELSE ABOUT THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS?
No, not a thing.
DID ANY OF THE FILM YOU SAW SHOW ANY OF THE CRAFT, OR PIECES OF CRAFT?
No, nothing about the craft.
WHAT DID BARDEN SAY AFTER THAT? THE FILM WAS SHOWN, THERE ARE 26 MEN. WERE THEY ASKING QUESTIONS?
Yes, they were all asking questions. Since Anthony Barden and the film introduction described them as ‘aliens,’ the audience reaction was, ‘Well, they sure look like us in miniature form.’ One guy in the back of the room said, ‘Wow, the aliens have bigger stomachs than Stein!’ (laughs)
YOU’VE ALWAYS HAD A BIGGER STOMACH?
Yes, a protruding stomach. They used to tease me about that.
WHAT DID ANTHONY BARDEN SAY TO THE GROUP?
He said that the explanation at the front of the film was the only information we had, other than this was sent to our group to view and in two weeks, five of us would be going to Area 51 in Nevada and probably would get further information at that time. Anthony said if that did happen, he would call together the rest of the group after we returned to give further information - unless it’s classified TOP SECRET WHITE HOUSE.
IN THOSE NEXT TWO WEEKS, DID YOU GET TOGETHER WITH ANTHONY BARDEN OVER COFFEE OR A BEER TO TALK WITH HIM?
Yes, a couple of time we got together for lunch. During those two weeks, I was teaching an instructor training class and trying to improve our instructors we had because they were floundering. I was busy at that, but we did meet twice and talked about the fact that I was completely baffled, completely puzzled as to what these beings could be since the information listed them as ‘aliens’ on the paperwork. Anthony Barden told me he hoped we would find out more when we got to Area 51.
Trip to Area 51, Nellis AFB, August 1958
OK, TWO WEEKS LATER, WHAT WAS THE PROCESS TO GET YOU TO AREA 51? THE GROUP IS YOU, ANTHONY BARDEN AND THE THREE MEN FROM YOUR ITALIAN PHOTO ANALYSIS TEAM?
Yes. We knew two weeks in advance when we would be leaving and where we would be leaving from. MPs picked us up in a van at the headquarters parking lot and they took a total of five of us out to a military plane at the local largest city airport. The military plane was ready to go and we climbed on board with just a little bit of luggage. Each of us just had one small suitcase. No cameras. No guns. We had to leave our guns at home. I always felt naked without my gun.
WERE YOU ORDERED NOT TO TAKE NOTES OR AUDIO RECORD?
Right, no photos, no recordings, no notes – just what we saw visually and heard while we went through the Area 51 tour.
NOW YOU’RE IN AUGUST 1958 AND YOU FLY TO?
Flew to the air base in Nevada.
DIRECTLY TO NELLIS AFB?
Yes, we were able to get there without stopping.
YOU LANDED ON THE BASE?
WHO WAS THERE TO MEET YOU?
That Col. ‘Jim’ with only the one-name nametag. I knew his name was phony, too, because a couple of times I said, ‘Jim’ and he didn’t answer me right away like he wasn’t used to recognizing that name.
WAS HE IN PROFESSIONAL MILITARY UNIFORM?
Yes, not dress blues, but regular USAF military uniform with the Colonel badge and his hat and the scrambled eggs on the bill, the whole thing.
WAS THE VAN ALREADY THERE WITH THE COLONEL WHEN YOU LANDED?
Yes, he was there with a little shuttle bus, which was a Ford shuttle van. After we landed, the pilot drove the plane around to a place to park it. Then portable stairs were put up to the plane and we got off. Col. Jim was right there and the van was there waiting for us and we went first to the main hangar building at the airport. There, Col. Jim gave us a little briefing that we were going out to the classified area where they have some of the classified equipment such as the Blackbird and some of the U-2s. He said, ‘You’ve probably all heard about U-2s. Well, we’ve got a couple of those here.’
The Lockheed U-2R/TR-1 in flight, made by Lockheed Skunk Works
and first flown on August 1, 1955. Approximately eighty-six U-2s were built
for CIA and U. S. Air Force. Image source USAF.
[ Editor's Note: Wikipedia - “The Lockheed U-2 (U for 'utility') is a single-engine, high-altitude aircraft flown by the United States Air Force and previously flown by the Central Intelligence Agency. In the early 1950s, with Cold War tensions on the rise, the U.S. military required better strategic reconnaissance to help determine Soviet capabilities and intentions. The existing surveillance aircraft were primarily converted bombers, vulnerable to anti-aircraft artillery, missiles, and fighters. It was thought an aircraft that could fly at 70,000 feet (21,000 m) would be beyond the reach of Soviet fighters, missiles, and even radar. This would allow ‘overflights’ —knowingly violating a country's airspace to take aerial photographs. After a meeting with President Eisenhower, Lockheed received a $22.5 million contract for the first 20 aircraft. The first flight occurred at the Groom Lake test site, also known as Area 51, on August 1, 1955, during what was only intended to be a high-speed taxi run. The sailplane-like wings were so efficient that the aircraft jumped into the air at 70 knots (130 km/h).”]
Then Col. Jim said we were going out to another area to cover some highly classified projects and material. So we went roughly eight miles to the first hangar area. We went inside the hangar and saw a Blackbird. Then we saw a couple of U-2s. They were working on one of them. They had the engine apart on one and were loading cameras into the other one.
They had U-2s there because, as I understood, Area 51 was setting them up for a special photography run of some kind. The Blackbird was new and highly classified then.
SR-71B Trainer over the Sierra Nevada Mountains of California in 1994.
Note second cockpit is raised for the instructor. Image source USAF.
[ Editor's Note: Wikipedia - “The Lockheed SR-71 was an advanced, long-range, Mach 3 strategic reconnaissance aircraft developed from the Lockheed A-12 and YF-12A aircraft by the Lockheed Skunk Works. The SR-71 was unofficially named the Blackbird, and called the Habu by its crews. Clarence "Kelly" Johnson was responsible for many of the design's innovative concepts. A defensive feature of the aircraft was its high speed and operating altitude, whereby, if a surface-to-air missile launch were detected, standard evasive action was simply to accelerate. The SR-71 line was in service from 1964 to 1998, with 12 of the 32 aircraft being destroyed in accidents, though none were lost to enemy action.”]
I remember it leaking jet fuel as it was sitting there and I said, ‘Boy, it must have a bad gas tank?’ A guy said, ‘Oh, no, we have to refuel the Blackbirds in the air and we hope that we dump most of the excess fuel when they come down so they don’t leak like this one that didn’t dump enough fuel before. We have to refuel them usually in the 30,000 or 40,000 feet altitude because the speed with which they fly, there is so much expansion and contraction in the body of the airplane going through the atmosphere, the gas tanks expand and contract. So, they can’t make them super tight because the tanks would burst in the middle. In 1958, the Blackbird was used for very high altitude photographing and espionage.
WAS IT REPLACING WHAT THE U-2S HAD BEEN DOING?
Yes, it was a replacement plane for the U-2s.
ANTHONY BARDEN HAD NOT SEEN A BLACKBIRD EITHER?
No, he had not. The Blackbird was brand new to us.
YOU ARE ON A TOUR TO SEE CLASSIFIED STUFF, BUT NO ONE HAS SAID TO YOU, ‘WE’RE SHOWING YOU THE BLACKBIRD AND U-2S BECAUSE WE’RE USING THEM TO MONITOR ALIEN ACTIVITY ON EARTH?’
No, nothing to that effect. It was just that the U-2s would be used for a special project and the Blackbird was there because it was in the highly protected area. The general public had never seen the Blackbird before. When it was flown at night, no one could see what it looked like.
We knew that the U-2s had been used to fly over North Korea during the Korean War for high altitude spy shots. Nothing was said about the U-2s or Blackbird being used to get photographs of alien saucers or other. Col. Jim described some of the Blackbird’s advantages in high speed and that it could fly higher than the U-2 did. The U-2 had an engine, I think, with just 6,000 pounds of thrust. The Blackbird had two engines with around 20,000 pounds of thrust and it could refuel in the air.
More Travel to See Disc Craft and Grey Entity
DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING ABOUT HOW COL. JIM HANDLED THE NEXT PHASE OF YOUR TOUR TO THE UFO CRAFT AND THE GREY BEING? After we left the hangar and got back on the van bus, Col. Jim told us it was about eight miles to the next area where we were going to visit and see more highly classified material and aircraft there. We said to each other, ‘Well, we just saw the Blackbird! How highly more classified could you get?’
We guessed we might see a saucer vehicle that might have been picked up at Roswell or some place like that, but we didn’t really know until we walked into the ‘cave’ hangar area that we were going to actually see some, which we did.
YOU’RE ALL TOGETHER IN THE VAN AND COL. JIM IS WITH YOU?
Yes, he is with us all the time. He is in the front seat and we are further back. The van was one of those 12-passenger vans.
WHILE YOU ARE TRAVELING THOSE EIGHT MILES, IS COL. JIM TALKING TO ANYBODY?
Somewhat, but the van was very noisy and had no air conditioning. It was really dusty and the windows were down along the side for ventilation. The wind was blowing, so it was hard to hear. We did ask him a few questions, but not very much because we really could not hear him.
Camouflaged Office Complex
and Disc Hangar At Papoose Mountain
WHAT DID YOU SEE THROUGH THE FRONT VAN WINDOW WHEN YOU CAME TO A STOP?
We saw ahead of us some buildings that looked like they could be hangars and some office buildings.
WHAT WAS THE SHAPE AND HEIGHT OF THE HILLS? They called them ‘mountains,’ but they were a little low to be classified as real mountains. They were probably 3,000 to 4,000 feet high – not the type of mountains that snow would be on. More accurately, they were large hills.
WHERE DO YOU PULL UP FIRST IN THE VAN?
An office complex area. We got off the van and Col. Jim told us we were going into the office complex first. He said there were things in there he wanted to show us. So, we got off and went into the first office complex. There was office personnel working there. You could see one guy making copies at a Xerox machine and an older woman was filing stuff in a filing cabinet. There was a kind of reception area, a nice room that had a TV in it if you were waiting for something. I never did understand why they had an open reception area with a TV because you could hardly get in there with a tank! Even Congressmen don’t visit there! The only people who can visit have to have very high security clearances with Need to Know. Maybe the reception room was for Generals and people like that.
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia - In 1937, the process called Xerography (Greek for ‘dry writing’) was invented by American law student Chester Carlson based on electrostatic energy. Carlson filed a patent application in April 1939. It took him eight years to find an investor, which was the Haloid Company, later to become the Xerox Corporation that trademarked the name “Xerox.” Xerography became commercially available in 1950 by the Xerox Corporation. ]
IS THE COMPLEX RIGHT AGAINST THE MOUNTAIN?
Yes, the office complex rests against the mountain with some buildings going right up to the mountain edge. Then you have a fairly steep cliff area and you could see sort of an arch in the mountain stone. It’s not an open arch, but that’s the area that had a cave in the bottom of it and the military had taken rock out of this cave and enlarged the cave into a hangar.
SO YOU THINK IT WAS A NATURALLY EXISTING CAVE THAT WAS MODIFIED?
Yes, it was made much larger, but the initial main hangar cave was probably already there.
WERE THERE CONNECTING RAMPS AND STAIRS THAT WENT FROM THE OFFICE COMPLEX DIRECTLY INTO THE CAVE HANGAR?
There was just a little short walkway about five to six feet with a roof over it and you walked through that right into the cave hangar. The cave hangar just had this one narrow entrance area from the office complex and everything was rock around that. When we went in the entrance way and I looked back and all I could see was rock everywhere. Then further on as we viewed the saucer craft, you could see a larger doorway where they brought the craft through.
WHAT DO YOU THINK A SATELLITE WOULD HAVE SEEN OF THE CAVE HANGAR?
Satellite would have seen nothing, probably.
THE OFFICE COMPLEX?
There was slight camouflage on some of the buildings that tapered down onto the edge of the mountain cliff area where they had camouflaged netting going across the building roof closest to the cliff. That was the only camouflage I saw. The other hangar type buildings they had out there, which we didn’t go into, looked very flimsy and temporary. They weren’t well built.
WHAT WAS INSIDE OF THOSE?
We never learned anything about them. We went out the back way and the van met us there and we never did get into the flimsy structures. We had no idea what was in those.
We went into the cave hangar from the office complex. Col. Jim said, ‘You’re going to see some highly classified equipment. At this time, we have some saucer craft that have been gathered in the United States from New Mexico and we have other craft that have been gathered from around the world.’ Then he took us through a small doorway and there was a curve in the hall. We went into the main hangar area and there was a roped off walkway along the edge of the hangar. He took us right down the roped off walkway. We could not get close to the craft.
IS IT BUILT SO THE NATURAL CAVE IS FORMING THE WALL OF ONE OF THE OFFICE COMPLEXES?
Yes, one building was built right against the wall of the cave, not touching because you would have water running down the mountainside area when it rained. If you had it too close, you would have water in the building. But the wall was within a foot or two at least of the cliff wall. That building had the camouflaged netting draped over it.
ON THAT CAMOUFLAGE NETTING, WAS THERE SAND AND ROCKS?
No, it looked like regular military camouflage, like something you would throw over a tank to camouflage it.
HOW DOES ONLY NETTING CAMOUFLAGE?
You have brown and green colors and it’s close netting. From an aerial view, it looks like a continuation of ground. The short walkway from the office building took us right into the cave entrance. From there, we went in a smaller little cave room and then a sharp right and go through an area that has about an 8 or 10 foot opening. After that is a walkway and to the left is the whole bay of chiseled out natural cave where the saucer craft were.
IT WAS ALL HARD ROCK WALL, CEILING AND FLOOR?
If I remember correctly, something had been done with the floor to level it. There was some kind of a poured cement floor. There were some areas that looked like a flat cave floor, but most of it had cement poured in to make it level. We are walking along the edge of the right hand wall of the cave.
HOW FAR ARE YOU FROM THE CLOSEST CRAFT?
I’d say thirty feet.
WHAT COULD YOU SEE ON THAT CLOSEST CRAFT?