Part 17: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
Part 17: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
© 2009 by Linda Moulton Howe
Copyright © 1999 - 2017 by Linda Moulton Howe.
All Rights Reserved.
This file is used with permission.
“We (CIA) gave President Eisenhower the report we had
that U. S. naval ships had radar screen information about saucer craft
coming in from outer space and going into the South Pole
and down into the Argentina region.” - “Stein,” Former Army/CIA UFO Analyst
February 4, 2009 Albuquerque, New Mexico - My June 29, 1998, interview with Stein at his Florida home continues from Part 16, in which he described an April 1959 meeting with both President Dwight David Eisenhower and Vice President Richard M. Nixon at FBI Headquarters in Washington, D. C. that began with a UFO photo from Puerto Rico.
Left: Dwight David Eisenhower, 1st Supreme Allied Commander Europe
and 34th American President. Right: Richard Milhous Nixon, V. Pres. for 34th President,
Dwight D. Eisenhower, January 20, 1953 – January 20, 1961; and 37th American
President, January 20, 1969 – August 9, 1974.
“TALK ABOUT THE PUERTO RICO PHOTOGRAPH.
Yes, we were talking about the photograph in Puerto Rico of a flying disc. I told Pres. Eisenhower in that meeting at FBI headquarters that the photograph looked like a German Haunebu II and the president said, ‘I think you’re right.’
Die Glocke RFZ (RundFlugZeug, or Round Aircraft) series from 1934-41. As war had started
in 1939 the RFZ-5 became the Haunebu I (photographed above) and by 1941
the RFZ-7 had become the Vril 1. Source: medem.kiev.ua.
DID PRES. EISENHOWER ELABORATE ABOUT WHAT WAS GERMAN AND WHAT WAS NOT IN TERMS OF THE DISCS?
No, he didn’t. He just agreed with me that it looked like a German Haunebu II, so the president had to be familiar with the different types of craft, just from looking at photographs. I always had the feeling that Pres. Eisenhower knew more than we knew and that he knew a lot more than what Nixon knew. Nixon was not completely in the loop on this material because Nixon was always frustrated that he was outside looking in.
DID NIXON SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE GERMAN CRAFT?
Absolutely nothing. Nixon just looked kind of blank. He looked at the photograph and at Eisenhower and me and Anthony Barden and looked a bit stunned. So, I had a feeling that Eisenhower was keeping him outside the information loop and Nixon didn’t seem to know that much about what was really going on.
YOU HAD THE IMPRESSION THAT NIXON MIGHT HAVE BEEN SEEING FOR THE FIRST TIME A PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS RELATED BY YOU AND EISENHOWER TO A GERMAN-MANUFACTURED DISC?
Yes, that’s the first we ever mentioned in any meeting about the German craft. At the first meeting with Nixon alone in November 1958, we didn’t have any photographs of discs that looked like the German craft. The photos then all looked like the alien craft at Area 51. Nixon seemed to know that he was out of the loop and not getting the whole story. I’m sure that’s what was behind his blank stare.
YOU OR NIXON DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING TO EISENHOWER?
No, you could never say anything like that in front of Pres. Eisenhower, like ‘Why didn’t you tell me?’ He would kick you out of the office!
BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE NIXON SAYING TO EISENHOWER THAT HE KNEW HE WAS OUT OF THE INFORMATION LOOP?
Yes. Nixon would never have gone to Eisenhower and asked him, ‘Why didn’t I get this information?’ At that time, Eisenhower would have chewed him up and down and never have given Nixon another ounce of information on anything. That’s the way Eisenhower operated – he was a lean, mean machine! You had to carry out orders very precisely with him. One detail left out and you were in the doghouse.
1959 Argentina Photographs
AFTER THE FIRST MEETING WITH NIXON ALONE IN NOVEMBER 1958, YOU AND ANTHONY BARDEN WENT BACK TO YOUR SOUTHEASTERN MILITARY BASE. WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT? DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER HIGHLY CLASSIFIED MEETINGS WITH ANYONE WHO HAD REALLY SENSITIVE UFO FILM OR PHOTOGRAPHS?
I remember in January 1959, we had a courier bring in a bunch of foreign photographs. At that time, we had a photograph of an alien craft taken from a United States boat off the shore of Argentina in the south Atlantic. That’s the photograph we showed Pres. Eisenhower in April 1959, and I told him that it looked like a Haunebu II and he replied, ‘Yes,’ he agreed.
THE JANUARY 1959 PHOTOGRAPHS ARE THE ONES YOU TOOK TO THE LAST APRIL MEETING IN WASHINGTON WITH BOTH PRESIDENT EISENHOWER AND VICE PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON?
Yes. WHEN YOU ORIGINALLY GOT THE JANUARY 1959 PHOTOS, DID YOU SIT DOWN WITH ANTHONY BARDEN TO TALK ABOUT THEM?
All the photos we got at that time were aerial shots. I don’t recall any of a disc that had landed. There were eight or ten photos of craft from around the world – Italy, more shots from Belgium, from The Netherlands, from Germany. They were all aerial shots and all, except the Argentina craft, looked like the alien craft, not German craft. They looked like the alien craft at Area 51. It’s a possibility that Germany could have been building craft that looked just like the alien craft. (laughs) But I don’t know that.
IT SOUNDS LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THE CLASSIFIED PHOTOGRAPHS AND FILES THAT YOU AND ANTHONY BARDEN AND YOUR TEAM WERE GETTING IN THE SOUTHEASTERN U. S. BASE WERE IN THE CATEGORY OF NON-HUMAN OR EXTRATERRESTRIAL? Yes. DID YOU EVER TALK WITH ANTHONY BARDEN ABOUT WHY SOME EXTRATERRESTRIAL GROUP WOULD HAVE A SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT RELATIONSHIP WITH GERMANY?
No. The only reference that ever came up was that last April 1959 meeting with the president when I mentioned that the Argentina photograph craft looked like a German Haunebu II, and Eisenhower agreed, ‘Yes, I think you’re right.’
YOU AND ANTHONY BARDEN DID NOT TALK ABOUT THE IMPLICATION?
Yes, we did discuss craft. We agreed that anything that looked like the three alien craft were not human-made. And anything that looked like the German craft, we would put in the category of German craft.
BUT GERMAN CRAFT WAS THE MINORITY CATEGORY?
Oh, yes, by far the minority – at least for overseas. Now, the United States – we don’t really know how many came for investigation and how many the FBI handled or what they all looked like. I do remember that when the U. S. plane with cameras on it flew up through the formation of saucers, those looked like the German technology in terms of appearance.
THAT WAS 16MM FILM TAKEN FROM THE WING OF ONE OF OUR PLANES?
I’m not certain of the millimeter on the film, but they were very good cameras because on some of the other pictures we saw taken from the airplane, the shots were excellent. That film over the United States, we were told about it in the November 1958 meeting with Richard Nixon, but we didn’t see the actual photographs in that meeting - we were given a description of the saucers in the film and another case in Montana.
YOU NEVER GOT TO SEE THE FILM OF THE SAUCER FORMATION?
No, never got to see it because that earlier briefing group had already gone through the film and other materials with Nixon before Anthony Barden and I joined Nixon for our part of the briefing. The only photograph the other group had left out was the one from Montana and Anthony Barden and I got to see it – and that one was taken by an amateur photographer and was blown up and grainy and poor quality.
BETWEEN JANUARY AND APRIL 1959, WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAME INTO YOUR CIA OFFICE THAT SEEMED TO HAVE A CONNECTION TO THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS OR THE GREY BEINGS OR ANY SPECIFIC ALIEN TYPE?
No. At that time, as I said, all the photographs were aerial shots of saucer craft in the air. Some fairly close to the ground, but nothing landed. No photos of aliens between January and April 1959.
Eisenhower and Nixon Meeting
in April 1959 At FBI Headquarters
WHAT PRECIPITATED THE REASON TO TRAVEL TO WASHINGTON, D. C., IN APRIL 1959, TO MEET WITH PRES. EISENHOWER AND NIXON?
By April 1959, Eisenhower was not running again for President and he wanted to get all the different facets together of military, FBI, CIA and so on in that spring to go over everything they had been doing so they could finalize everything before he was out of office.
WHAT WAS THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS FOR THAT APRIL 1959 MEETING?
We flew from our southeastern military base to Washington, D. C. A limo picked us up and took us to a hotel. We stayed overnight. We had a morning meeting scheduled with the president and vice president. We got up early and it was a very bright, sunny day. The cherry blossoms were out, so it was beautiful driving first to the Capitol building where we were to wait for other CIA officials. We weren't sure if we were going to have a meeting there in the Capitol or at the White House or where.
We waited until a guard came to us and said he had received a call that the location of the meeting had been changed to a meeting room in the FBI building. In that last meeting, we had some FBI officials that came to the meeting involved with the project. No Air Force. Eisenhower and Nixon had already talked to the U. S. Air Force the week before. So, we had to get back in the limo and go to the FBI building, not too far from the White House. We were ushered us in to the meeting room.
It was on about the third or fourth floor and Eisenhower and Nixon were already there.
WHAT WAS THE ROOM LIKE? HOW MANY PEOPLE?
When we came in, the room was well lit. It was a decorated conference room in the FBI headquarters building.
COLORS? White walls. Drapes were kind of a beige and they were closed.
WAS IT AN AMPHITHEATER?
No, it was a flat floor and there was a long table up front. Eisenhower was there at the table along with Nixon, already sitting down. As we walked in, they were discussing some type of paperwork. The FBI people, three of them, came in right behind us.
WAS HOOVER THERE? [ J. Edgar Hoover was FBI Director then.]
No, there were agents familiar with the UFO cases. And then we just sat down in some chairs and Pres. Eisenhower said, ‘Oh, we were concentrating here and didn’t see you come in!’ He rolled his chair from Nixon and said that we needed to go over what we had very quickly. He asked the FBI if they had much material. The agents said that they had a reasonably good stack to go over. Then Ike asked us what we had and we answered about ten or a dozen cases to cover.
The President said, ‘We’re taking you first, so come and show us what you have.’ Anthony Barden and I took up our suitcase and opened it on the floor and took out the big folder with everything in it and laid out the photographs for Eisenhower and Nixon. The first photo we showed was the Puerto Rico one and said to them, ‘This looks like a Haunebu II German craft.’
Eisenhower said, ‘I think you’re right.’
That’s when Nixon looked at Eisenhower and looked at me and just sort of looked totally stunned. I had a feeling that Eisenhower had kind of kept him out of the loop, that Nixon didn’t have a lot of firsthand knowledge of these things. When I mentioned the German craft, Eisenhower did not question it, so he must have known about the German space program, maybe from the time he entered office in 1952.
DID ANTHONY BARDEN SAY ANYTHING?
He said, ‘Yes, I agree that this photograph resembles the German craft.’
AND EISENHOWER DOES NOT PICK UP ON YOUR COMMENTS AND TALK ABOUT WHAT IS KNOWN ABOUT THE GERMAN CRAFT?
The only thing that Eisenhower said was that we had ships down in Puerto Rico where the photograph was taken and he also wondered if the CIA had knowledge about how many of those craft were being reported coming out of Argentina.
U. S. Navy Radar Picked Up UFOs
Coming from Outer Space to Argentina and South Pole
We (CIA) gave President Eisenhower the report we had that U. S. naval ships had radar screen information about saucer craft coming in from outer space and going into the South Pole and down into the Argentina region. I told President Eisenhower this from the report we had about a new package of radar contacts.
WHEN YOU SAID THAT, DID EISENHOWER HAVE MORE COMMENTS?
He did not seem surprised. He said something like, ‘That is to be expected.’ Or, ‘We expected this.’ The news didn’t seem that important to him. It seemed like it was something Eisenhower was already familiar with and already knew and that we were just reviewing for him stuff that Ike had already seen. That’s what I gathered from the meeting. He might have received a report from CIA headquarters when it first came out, but we got it in January 1959.
OR GOT IT FROM MAJESTIC-12?
I don’t know how long the Majestic-12 people were in business. I do know there were references to Majestic-12 back to the 1940s. I don’t know if they existed under that specific name at the end of the 1950s.
President Eisenhower Referenced Majestic-12
DID EISENHOWER EVER REFERENCE MAJESTIC 12?
Yes. At one time, we were looking at the different photographs and Ike mentioned that he had told Nixon, ‘This looks familiar.’ It was an aerial shot over The Netherlands. Eisenhower said, ‘Contact Majestic-12 on this and verify if this is the same thing that MJ-12 had sent three months ago,’ or some time line like that.
DID NIXON RESPOND?
Yes, he said he would check that afternoon.
DID ANYONE EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY THE WORD, ‘MAJESTIC’?
We knew it was the term for the original people who were digging into the flying saucer episodes. That study group was labeled Majestic-12, and they were the first people involved with the federal government’s investigations in the 1940s. But I really don’t think ‘Majestic-12’ as a name existed at the end of the 1950s.
IT MIGHT HAVE CHANGED ITS NAME, BUT IT’S STILL REFERRED TO AS ‘MAJESTIC-12’ TODAY BY INVESTIGATORS.
YES. AND THE CLASSIFICATION TERM, ‘MAJIC – TOP SECRET, EYES ONLY.’‘MAGIC’ WAS USED BY THE OSS [ Office of Strategic Services in WWII ] AS A CRYPTOGRAPHY TERM DURING WORLD WAR II. I’M ASSUMING THAT ‘MAJIC’ WITH A ‘J’ WAS A PLAY OFF OF THE OSS’S ‘MAJIC.’ BOTH WERE HIGHLY SENSITIVE AND CLASSIFIED CATEGORIES.
I never saw anything in regard to ‘MAJIC,’ but I heard about Majestic-12 in CIA meetings and what they were doing. We never got any photos that were stamped on the back, ‘MAJESTIC-12,’ or ‘MAJIC,’ or ‘MAJESTIC’ or anything like that.
MAYBE THERE WERE PARALLEL TRACKS OF INTELLIGENCE AND THAT MAJESTIC-12 MIGHT HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL? THE CIA WOULD HAVE BEEN DOING ITS OWN INTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATIONS. THE FBI WOULD BE DOING ITS OWN INVESTIGATIONS. THE ARMY, AIR FORCE, NAVY AND ALL THOSE PARALLEL TRACKS – AND SOMETIMES INVESTIGATING EACH OTHER.
DID EISENHOWER IN THAT MEETING SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHETHER HE PERCEIVED ANYTHING AS AN ALLY? OR THREAT? FROM THE NON-HUMANS?
No. In fact, the comment Ike had told Nixon that Nixon told us was that we were not gaining enough ground on the UFO phenomenon, that we needed new blood to investigate – especially in the USAF as far as what the Air Force was coming up with.
IS THE APRIL 1959 MEETING WHEN IKE SAID HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHY NOBODY WAS GETTING TO THE BOTTOM OF THE UFO PHENOMENON?
Nixon said Ike was really disappointed in the UFO research and that we needed new blood to move it all along because no one was accomplishing much. Nixon said that was Ike’s perception and that’s when the USAF colonel said to Anthony Barden and me, ‘Well, it looks like I’m out of a job!’
BUT NIXON TOLD YOU THAT AFTER YOUR FIRST MEETING WITH NIXON ONLY IN NOVEMBER 1958. Yes. BUT IN THE APRIL 1959 MEETING WITH EISENHOWER AND NIXON TOGETHER, DID EISENHOWER SAY ANYTHING WITH IMPATIENCE, ANGER OR WITH ANY EMOTION THAT WOULD GIVE INSIGHT ABOUT THE ALIEN AGENDAS, CRAFT AND BEINGS?
The only thing Ike said was, ‘Do you have any photographs with aliens similar to what you had before (in November 1958 meeting with Nixon)?’
We told him no, that we did not. We had interviews with the people who took photographs of the craft and aliens, and the photos had been verified as accurate and not phony. I think we sat for fifteen or twenty minutes with Pres. Eisenhower and he said, ‘Are these (aerial photos) the only things you have?’ We told him yes. He looked at everything, paged through them, and we told him that all our overseas interviews described the craft and how long it took the craft to fly over the various areas. We had one photograph we showed Ike that was from Holland where a craft hovered over a little town.
That was just a round one. (There was a triangle in a Netherlands photo.) When that round disc started moving upward, it took off at high speed and darted away. Eisenhower said, ‘Yes, that’s almost a run of the mill alien saucer story.’ Ike specifically said ‘alien saucer’ about that Holland photograph. At that time, President Eisenhower seemed very pushed, like he had a lot on his agenda.
Did President Eisenhower Visit An Alien Being
in California on February 20, 1954?
THERE IS A RUMOR THAT PRESIDENT EISENHOWER WENT TO SEE A NON-HUMAN BEING IN CALIFORNIA.
I never saw anything like that in any meeting we had and nothing was ever brought up that Ike had seen an alien or spoken with an alien or whatever it might have been.
[ Editor’s Note: On February 19, 2004, The Washington Post published a 50th anniversary update by reporter Peter Carlson about President Dwight Eisenhower's visit to Palm Springs California, on February 20, 1954. UFO Evidence archived the Post article this way:
- Fact: President Dwight Eisenhower was on a golf vacation in Palm Springs on Feb. 20, 1954. After dinner that night, he made an unscheduled departure from the Smoking Tree Ranch, where he was staying.
- Fact: Associated Press issued a bulletin that night: “Pres. Eisenhower died tonight of a heart attack in Palm Springs.” Two minutes later, the AP retracted that bulletin and reported that Ike was still alive. [ Pres. Eisenhower did not die until 1969.]
- Fact: His press spokesman told reporters that Ike had visited a dentist the previous night because he had chipped a tooth while eating a chicken wing at dinner.
- Fact: No dental record was ever presented to the media by dentist, Francis A. Purcell, D.D.S., who died in 1974.
- Fact: February 21, 1954: The next day, Pres. Eisenhower attended a church service in Los Angeles.
- Never-Explained Fact: Why did the Associated Press release a bulletin that Pres. Eisenhower died the night of February 20, 1954?
- Speculation/Rumor: President Eisenhower met with either one or more blond-haired humanoids referred to as “Nordics” or that he met with one or more grey-skinned, large black-eyed, non-humans referred to as “Greys” in a meeting at Edwards AFB or China Lake about non-human warnings that nuclear warfare would not be allowed on Earth and that nuclear missile development must be stopped.
FBI Was Investigating Human Abductions
and Animal Mutilations by Aliens
“The FBI told us that they had a lot of sightings, but nothing out of the ordinary except for human abductions. ...we’ve also had some more cattle mutilations and things of that nature, but nothing extremely different about the UFO craft themselves.”
DO YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING SPECIFIC THAT NIXON SAID OR ASKED IN THE MEETING WITH EISENHOWER IN APRIL 1959?
No, he said very little as we went over our material. Then he said, ‘Do you guys have anything else to bring up?’ We said, ‘No.’ And he said, ‘Well, we’re ready for the FBI report.’ Then Nixon said to an FBI representative who was there, ‘In your report, is there anything that might be of interest to the CIA as far as looking for unusual types of craft overseas?’ The FBI told us that they had a lot of sightings, but nothing out of the ordinary except for human abductions. THE FBI SAID THAT? Yes. The FBI said they were investigating two abductions in which people claimed they were up in a saucer and came back. The two people had a neighbor who took a photograph of the craft. The two people plus the neighbor suggested to the FBI that the case was probably accurate, they told us. The FBI guy said, ‘Outside of that, we’ve also had some more cattle mutilations and things of that nature, but nothing extremely different about the UFO craft themselves.’ Then Eisenhower and Nixon said to Anthony and me, ‘If you fellows need to go somewhere, you can go because we don’t think there is much more for you to learn here in the U. S.’ DID PRES. EISENHOWER ASK ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANIMAL MUTILATIONS AND HUMAN ABDUCTIONS? No, so he must have been very familiar with those subjects apparently.
ARMY LT. COLONEL PHILIP J. CORSO SAID IN HIS 1997 BOOK, THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL, THAT HE HAD READ ABOUT UNUSUAL, BLOODLESS, TRACKLESS ANIMAL DEATHS WHILE HE WAS WORKING FOR THE EISENHOWER ADMINISTRATION UNDER THE ARMY’S LT. GENERAL ARTHUR TRUDEAU, APPOINTED BY PRES. EISENHOWER TO BE THE ARMY’S FIRST CHIEF OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT COMMAND.
Lt. General Arthur Trudeau, Army's first Chief of Research
and Development Command, appointed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Photograph from U. S. Army Military History Institute.
Left: Army Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso.
Right: Army Lt. General Arthur Trudeau at the general's
Gulf Oil Research offices after General Trudeau retired from the U. S. Army
in 1962. Photo from The Day After Roswell © 1997 by Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso.
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia - Arthur G. Trudeau was born on July 5, 1902 and died on June 5, 1991. As a Lieutenant General in the United States Army, he was best known for his command of the 7th Infantry Division during the Battle of Pork Chop Hill during the Korean War. He was also a good friend to and a trouble-shooter for Pres. Dwight D. Eisenhower, who appointed Gen. Trudeau to be the Army's first Chief of Research and Development Command in 1953. Upon retirement from the Army in 1962, Gen. Trudeau went on to head Gulf Labs of the Gulf Oil Corporation in Pittsburgh until 1968. He then served as a special adviser to the chairman of Pittsburgh's Rockwell International aerospace firm until 1972.
The General is connected to the Roswell UFO incident in 1947as he headed the committee responsible for the Pentagon's files and recovered UFO items, according to Lt. Col. Corso, who worked for General Trudeau. Col. Corso says that General Trudeau actually managed a covert mission from his Pentagon office to disseminate recovered alien technology for American industries to back-engineer. ]
Yes, when reports mentioned animal mutilations, Pres. Eisenhower and V. Pres. Nixon did not seem surprised – like they already knew about that.
WHAT DID THEY KNOW ABOUT WHO, WHAT, WHY?
As I said before, I had a feeling that Eisenhower knew a lot more and that Nixon kind of knew the basics, but not in details.
AND YOU AND ANTHONY BARDEN WERE TREATED ONLY ON A ‘NEED TO KNOW’ BASIS?
Yes, and Anthony and I both wanted to leave the meeting with the president because we kind of felt like a left foot there that day. Anthony Barden did not like to talk with Pres. Eisenhower anyway. He was anxious to get out of the meeting as quickly as he could. (laughs)
So, I said to the president, ‘Sir, we’re going to be taking off for the hills of (name of state in which the southeastern military base was).
Pres. Eisenhower said, ‘OK, keep us informed. Remember, if it’s foreign and hot, call Richard (Nixon) because he’s handling anything on the foreign affairs side. He’s my right hand man on foreign affairs.’
We said, ‘Yes, we’ll do that.’ So we turned away and were packing up our materials in our suitcase. Then Pres. Eisenhower said, ‘OK, guys, you’ve got to move this along because I’ve got an 11 o’clock meeting with (J. Edgar) Hoover [ head of FBI]. You know what a horse’s ass Hoover is if you’re late for a meeting! (laughs) I’m the President and that doesn’t mean a thing - if you’re late for his meeting Hoover's going to give you hell!’ (laughs)
As we left the room, the FBI was already starting out with a photograph and Pres. Eisenhower said, ‘Well, let’s hear about this abduction first.’
THAT’S WHAT EISENHOWER SAID?
Yes, ‘Let’s hear about this abduction first and go from there.’
YOU AND ANTHONY BARDEN DID NOT GET TO HEAR ABOUT THE ABDUCTION EVENT?
No. We had heard stories before about abductions at the previous Fall 1958 meeting with Nixon and we had materials sent to us for our general information file that showed cases of human abductions that the FBI and U.S. Air Force were handling locally in the United States.
WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
We walked out of the office and walked down to where our limo was parked in an executive parking lot area around the corner about a half block away. Then it took us right back to the airport.
WHAT DID YOU AND ANTHONY BARDEN TALK ABOUT IN THE LIMO?
Well, I said to him, ‘It felt like we were a lead balloon. We didn’t float at all.’ And Anthony said, ‘Well, that’s true. We really didn’t have much. And if we don’t get much, we don’t have much.’
CIA Human Abduction Case Files
“I think during the 1950s there were probably
a lot more abduction cases than anyone knew.”
WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO YOUR MILITARY BASE, WERE YOU AND ANTHONY BARDEN ABLE TO FIND OUT INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THE FBI’S ABDUCTION CASES WERE ABOUT?
We asked the CIA headquarters to give us a rundown on the particular case that was brought out in the meeting with Pres. Eisenhower and Nixon. We wanted to familiarize ourselves with what happened to the people who were abducted. But we never got any information back on the case.
IN TERMS OF THE DISCUSSION WITH NIXON OR ANYBODY ELSE IN WASHINGTON, D. C. ABOUT ABDUCTIONS, DO YOU REMEMBER ANYONE MAKING A COMMENT OR INTERPRETATION ABOUT WHAT THE ABDUCTIONS COULD MEAN?
We’d gotten paper work earlier about human abductions, that the abducted people reported that a bright light came in their bedroom and they floated out the windows and up into a craft and were operated on or were inspected like a physical exam. Then they were back in their beds when they woke up in the morning. I remember one example that they had was a woman who floated out her bedroom window. There was a hedge with leaves on it outside and she grabbed the hedge and let go of the leaves back through the window inside her room.
In the morning, she couldn’t remember what happened. But when she saw the hedge leaves by the window, then she remembered that she grabbed the leaves and reached back toward the window sill and purposefully dropped leaves inside her bedroom and there were hedge leaves inside her bedroom. So, she knew that she definitely was abducted. She was not dreaming it.
THIS IS PART OF ONE OF THE FILES THAT YOU AND YOUR CIA UNIT AT THE SOUTHEASTERN MILITARY BASE RECEIVED?
Yes, it was one file we received as an example. I don’t know the date of that case. I think we got that example along with other files right after the August 1958 trip to Area 51. A bunch of material was sent to us like that for our information to read in case we ran across foreign abductions.
WERE YOU EVER IN ANY DISCUSSION WITH ANYONE ABOUT WHAT THE REASON WAS FOR HUMAN ABDUCTIONS BY EXTRATERRESTRIALS?
We discussed that with our entire group down there as to what in the world the aliens could be looking for? What were they doing? At that time in the 1950s, the abduction thing – probably a lot of humans were abducted then, but there was nothing really public about the phenomenon. I think a lot of the abductees ten or twenty years later still had these dreams and went and had hypnosis and found out that they really were abducted. I think during the 1950s there were probably a lot more abduction cases than anyone knew.”