Part 2: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
© 2008 by Linda Moulton Howe Copyright
© 1999 - 2017 by Linda Moulton Howe.
All Rights Reserved.
This file is used with permission.
“At the end of the non-human autopsy film,
it said that the brain was different than ours and the
internal organs were entirely different.”
- “Stein,” Former Army/CIA UFO Analyst
September 2, 2008 Albuquerque, New Mexico -
Phone Interview # 2 -
May 25, 1998, Stein Received Phone Warning -
After Apparent Phone Tap
Stein was retired and living in the southeastern United States. I was living and working in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He and I had talked by phone for the first times on May 2 and May 7, 1998. To his surprise, on Monday, May 25, 1988, he received a phone call from a male voice who did not introduce himself and did not address Stein by name, but who warned Stein not to talk about an “assassination squad” based in the southeastern military base where the CIA Project Blue Book analysis of UFO photographs and film was also carried out. The clear implication was that one or both of our phones were tapped.
Linda Moulton Howe: “COULD YOU PLEASE GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE PHONE CALL AND TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT THE CALLER SAID?
A male voice, without saying my name, simply started: ‘Do you remember the conversation you had with a party in Pennsylvania in regards to some classified materials?’ They did not give an exact date and time. They just said ‘several weeks ago.’
I TALKED WITH YOU ON MAY 2 AND MAY 7, AND TODAY IS MAY 30, 1998, SO THE LAST TIME WE TALKED WAS THREE WEEKS AGO. DID THEY CALL YOU SOON AFTER WE TALKED, OR ONLY RECENTLY?
Recently. Today is Saturday. The person called me last Monday night, May 25, 1998. I didn’t mention anything to my wife because since she found out I was involved with classified activities, she has always been with the attitude to keep it all 100% classified.
WHAT ELSE DID THE MALE VOICE SAY?
He didn’t say my name. He just said, ‘We understand you have had a conversation with somebody in Pennsylvania in regards to classified materials and we would appreciate if you did not bring up the fact or have any interview or TV interviews in regard to the assassination squad that you mentioned on the telephone. And don’t mention anything going on at ------------- base, as you mentioned about the U-2 flights coming from there. Don’t mention anything about that. We would appreciate that because reporters and interested people seeing this information might try to get into the classified area there at the risk of their own physical harm.’
So, Linda, they’ve still got something there now that they don’t want anyone poking around, apparently because the phone caller said if that information were published, we would have reporters down in the base and it would have serious repercussions if outsiders tried to sneak into various areas.
DID YOU HAVE THE SENSE THAT YOUR WARNING WAS TIED INTO THE ALIEN STORY?
Yes, I think so. I know we have flying craft that are ours that look like UFOs that we have built or back-engineered copies of actual E. T. ones. I think they have some of those at that base. We used to have the U-2s stored there when they flew over Cuba. They would fly from our base to Cuba and return to land in Texas somewhere and then fly back again to our base during the Cuban missile crisis.
Linda, someone had to have tapped one of our phones and I have a feeling it must have been yours.
DID HE SAY YOU COULD NOT TALK ABOUT THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOIDS?
No, nothing like that.
THEN CAN WE DO AN INTERVIEW TODAY, WITHOUT NAME ATTRIBUTION, ABOUT YOU AS A PERSON WHO SERVED IN THE ARMY AND CIA WHO SAW FILMS AND PHOTOS OF NON-HUMANS AND THEIR CRAFT?
Yes, I guess so in regards to that subject, as long as I don’t bring up anything about ----------, or the classified area, or the assassination squad.
THEN, I’LL GET THE TAPE RECORDER GOING. COULD YOU START OFF AND TELL ME HOW I SHOULD INTRODUCE YOU?
I was working for the CIA, not as an agent, but in administration out of the southeastern United States. I had worked with Project Blue Book information about UFOs that the USAF could not explain. Those cases were sent to Washington, D. C., to Fort Belvoir, Virginia, and then Fort Belvoir would submit some of those cases down to my boss. The CIA also had other locations where cases were sent for investigation that were not explainable.
YOUR BOSS WAS WORKING IN THE CIA?
He had been there for a long time. In WWII, he was with the OSS and after WWII, it was changed to Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
YOU AND YOUR BOSS WERE HANDLING UNEXPLAINED CASES THAT PROJECT BLUE BOOK NEVER RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC?
Two Different Project Blue Books:
One Public and One CIA-Classified
See: 080308 Earthfiles “Original Scorched Carbon of CIA Memo Links Government UFO Cover-UP and JFK Assassination.”
Tab (D) CIA Counter-Intelligence (CI) Directive Regarding Project BLUE BOOK,
one of the nine original carbon pages scorched by fire and studied by Robert Wood,
Ph.D., physicist and retired aerospace manager, McDonnell Douglas.
[ Editor's Note: “Project BLUE BOOK (CIA-classified version) will continue in its current intelligence collection activities and counterintelligence functions as specified in current NIE. Reference to BLUE BOOK (public version) is authorized only when responding to public and congressional inquiries.” Wikipedia - “National Intelligence Estimates (NIEs) - first produced in 1950 by the Office of National Estimates - are United States federal government documents that are the authoritative assessment of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) on intelligence related to a particular national security issue. NIEs are produced by the National Intelligence Council and express the coordinated judgments of the United States Intelligence Community, the group of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies. NIEs are classified documents prepared for policymakers.”]
Yes, probably not all of the unexplained, but we were at least one of the groups investigating the unexplained ones. When they closed down (public version) Project Blue Book in 1969, they said to the public and the media that absolutely nothing of significance had been reported to the Condon Committee that could not be explained. [Physicist Edward Condon, Univ. of Colorado, hired by U. S. Air Force to allegedly study the UFO phenomenon to create a public report that was then used by the USAF to dismiss the phenomenon.] Technically, that was true because everything they could not explain was sent to Fort Belvoir in Virginia and then farmed out from there to other military operations like our southeastern base and to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The FBI was also involved, I know. The FBI would show up at some of the UFO eyewitnesses’ doorsteps.
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia – “Fort Belvoir, built in 1917, first as Camp A. A. Humphreys and by the 1930s was renamed Fort Belvoir. Fort Belvoir is an American military installation. Fort Belvoir serves as the headquarters for the Defense Logistics Agency, the Defense Contract Audit Agency, the Defense Technical Information Center and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, all agencies of the U. S. Department of Defense.
Fort Belvoir is also home to the U. S. Army Materiel Command and elements of ten other Army major commands; nineteen different agencies and direct reporting units of the Department of Army; eight elements of the U. S. Army Reserve and the Army National Guard; and 26 D.O.D. agencies. Also located there are the 249th Engineer Battalion (Prime Power), the U. S. Army Prime Power School, a Marine Corps detachment, a U. S. Air Force activity, a U. S. Army Audit Agency and an agency from the Department of the Treasury. ]
The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) headquarters at Fort Belvoir, Virginia.
Fort Belvoir is located near Lorton, Virginia. Image source:
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Digital Visual Library.
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) J. Edgar Hoover building in Washington, D. C.
The FBI also has 56 field offices located in major cities throughout the United States,
as well as at least 400 resident agencies in smaller American cities and towns and
more than 50 international offices called Legal Attaches housed in U. S.
embassies worldwide. Image by Aude.
WAS THE FBI SOME OF THE INFAMOUS ‘MEN IN BLACK’?
Yes, I think so.
WHAT YEARS WERE YOU SPECIFICALLY WORKING IN THE CIA AND HANDLING THE HIGHLY CLASSIFIED REPORTS ABOUT THE UFO PHENOMENON?
1957 to 1960. I entered the U. S. Army in 1956, but I didn’t get involved with the CIA Project Blue Book analysis until after the first year.
YOUR RANK WAS WHAT?
I was an Army 1st Lieutenant. I was still in the Army Signal Corps, but I also worked for the CIA. I was getting two pay checks. I was getting one from the CIA and one for military service.
IN THE COURSE OF YOUR CLASSIFIED WORK FROM 1957 TO 1960, WHAT 16MM FILMS DID YOU SEE RELATED TO THE UFO PHENOMENON?
One was released in the last few years showing the alien autopsy. I saw that very same film in 1957. [Santilli - see Earthfiles Part 1.]
WHAT WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH YOU SAW THE AUTOPSY FILM?
My boss – it was in regards to studying UFOs and trying to investigate some of the folders we had about various sightings. Apparently someone in Fort Belvoir, Virginia, sent him that film. We, as a team, screened the film one Saturday morning and then my boss had to send it right back to Fort Belvoir. But we saw that one.
Silver Disc Materialized Out of Small Cloud
Filmed in Color 16mm
We also saw on moving film several other highly classified UFO sightings. We had one color film showing a UFO actually developing or materializing over a power plant in one of the western states such as Oregon or Washington or Utah. Somewhere out in that area.
MEANING SOMEONE JUST HAPPENED TO BE FILMING?
Yes, someone was trying out a brand new camera and they were filming this power plant. First you saw the mountainous region around and then they panned to the power plant. The power plant naturally has a smoke stack with smoke going out of it. A little ways away from where the smoke was going up, we saw this white, round – looked like a little piece of a cloud. It got more and more dense and more and more round and then you could see tiny windows around the bottom section. It developed more and more and pretty soon it looked real silver and then it started flying off slowly.
SO THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY HAD 16MM FILM OF THE MATERIALIZATION OF A SILVER DISC THAT EMERGED FROM WHAT LOOKED LIKE A VAPOROUS CLOUD?
Yes, and emerged close to the smoke coming out of the power plant smoke stack. So, we thought at the time the aliens must have some way of materializing after traveling from one area to another, perhaps by using the current down in the power plant some how, by changing the electrical currents that were down there, changing into something electromagnetic or into something solid.
WAS THIS SHOWN TO YOU IN THE CONTEXT OF THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOID AUTOPSY BECAUSE THOSE HUMANOIDS WERE RELATED TO THE MATERIALIZATION OF THE DISC?
Not really. They just introduced it as film the CIA had that could not be explained and wanted our group to look at it. Another unexplainable case. They said we might get calls from people who witness similar materializations, so the film showed such an actual materialization phenomenon.
Other 16mm Film Screened by CIA Unit:
6-Fingered Non-Human Autopsy/Dissection
HOW WAS THE AUTOPSY/DISSECTION OF THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOID PRESENTED TO YOU? WHAT WAS THE EXPLANATION ABOUT WHY THIS HAD OCCURRED?
They said that this was done at Roswell the same day or day after a crash, that the craft was picked up at night and some time during the next day, the autopsy was performed there in Roswell at the base.
THAT WOULD CONTRADICT THE STATEMENT BY THE ALLEGED AUTOPSY CAMERAMAN, WHO SAID HE WAS THERE DURING THE AUTOPSY AND FILMED THE WRECKAGE AND THE BEAMS THAT HAD THE SYMBOLS AND THAT ABOUT TWO WEEKS LATER, HE WAS ASKED TO GO SOME PLACE TO FILM THE AUTOPSY/DISSECTION. DO YOU KNOW HOW TO RECONCILE THESE TWO DIFFERENT PIECES OF INFORMATION?
No, I don’t. When I saw the film in the southeastern military base, we were told that it was done in New Mexico and most of the film was done right at the military base outside of Roswell. Some smaller pieces of film were done at the local hospital or clinic, which might have been the beams with symbols on them.
[ Editor's Note: Linda Moulton Howe was told in 1995 that the disc with the 6-fingered humanoids crashed on May 31, 1947, southeast of Aragon, New Mexico, and 5 to 10 miles north of Elk Mountain, at the western end of the Plains of San Agustin, which would be southwest of Socorro. These I-beams with ancient Greek raised symbols and the 6-fingered handprint panels for controlling the craft were allegedly found together with the 6-fingered and 6-toed biological entities that were autopsied.]
In the 16mm film of alleged crash debris, there is an I-beam, which reflects like shiny metal
as it is turned in the hands of an unidentified person who seems to be showing the camera
different angles and orientations without knowing precisely what is top or bottom. In the
orientation above, the imprinted symbols resemble early and classic Greek shown below.
16mm frames provided by Ray Santilli of Merlin Productions, London, England
© 1996 by Orbital Media Ltd. Comparisons below from Glimpses of Other Realities,
Vol. II: High Strangeness © 1998 by Linda Moulton Howe, Earthfiles Shop.
Photograph from another film segment of I-beam debris showing
four more symbols: possibly Iota, Sigma, possibly Eta, Theta.
WHAT WAS THE DEBRIEFING ABOUT THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOIDS? HOW WERE THEY DESCRIBED?
There was very little information. The film was about ten years old when I and our team saw it. They just said this is the only film of the aliens and the body. There are photos taken by various citizens showing these aliens outside their craft walking around. But this is the only film that shows a close picture of the aliens and exactly what they look like. So, if you run across any more of these sightings that describe this particular 6-fingered being, you can compare against this film.
WAS THE FILM IN BLACK AND WHITE OR COLOR?
Black and white.
DID YOU EVER SEE ANY COLOR FILM OR PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE BEINGS?
Not of the beings, no, I never did. The only color film I ever saw was of that silver disc materializing at the power plant. It was in beautiful color. Blue sky, white clouds, silver disc.
FROM 1957 TO 1960, DID YOU SEE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS, DRAWINGS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION ABOUT ANY OTHER TYPES OF BEINGS BESIDES THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOIDS FROM THE AUTOPSY/DISSECTION FILM?
No other films of any kind or photos. There were a couple of photos taken by private individuals and sent to Project Blue Book of aliens outside a craft, but the beings were too small and far away to identify exactly what they looked like.
Stein Saw 6-Fingered Humanoid
Autopsy Film in CIA Unit, 1957-1958
One of two humanoids with six fingers and six toes in alleged 1947 autopsy footage filmed
by U. S. military cameraman after extraterrestrial biological entities were retrieved from disc
crash. Linda Moulton Howe was told the date was May 31, 1947, southeast of Aragon
and 5 to 10 miles north of Elk Mountain at the western end of the Plains of San Agustin.
Photographs provided by Ray Santilli, Merlin Productions,
London, England © 1996 by Orbital Media Ltd.
See autopsy film at YouTube.
HOW WERE YOU SHOWN THE 6-FINGERED AUTOPSY/DISSECTION FILM? WHAT WERE THE SCREENING CONDITIONS?
Fort Belvoir sent the film down to us at our military base's classified site and we looked at the film. Then my boss had to send it right back the next day by some special courier they had running between Fort Belvoir in Virginia and our Army base.
WAS THE 16MM FILM SHOWN BY A PROJECTOR ON A SCREEN?
Yes, on a regular white screen that you pulled down like a shade.
HOW MANY OF YOU WERE THERE?
About 20 of us. There were 26 in total involved in our group and I would say about 20 saw that film. Some of our group were overseas at the time. A lot of the UFO photos that we got were not United States sightings. There were European and Central America, Mexico, South America, Italy. One was an Italian film. Even though the CIA had headquarters in all those foreign countries, it was our job in our southeastern base to verify what was sent to us.
DID THE AUTOPSY FILM HAVE ANY NARRATION OR SOUND?
Just a short text statement before the autopsy started. No sound or narration of any kind during the autopsy. It went through the whole autopsy showing the type of brain they had and that the internal organs were entirely different than ours.
WAS THERE ANY MORE DETAILED EXPLANATION?
At the end of the non-human autopsy film, it said that the brain was different than ours and the internal organs were entirely different as far as lungs and stomach and so forth. Nothing really resembled a human as far as the internal organs.
WHEN THE FILM SHUT OFF, WHAT WAS THE DISCUSSION AMONG THE 20 OF YOU?
(laughs) We discussed where the beings could have come from because it was something none of us had even come close to envisioning was around our planet or happening.
THIS WAS YOUR FIRST VISUAL EXPERIENCE WITH SOMETHING NON-HUMAN. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU THOUGHT AT THE TIME?
Yes, I was perplexed. I wondered how could this be? How can these beings come here? How can they be entirely different from what humankind is.
YET, SORT OF RESEMBLED US IN A HUMANOID-SHAPE WAY.
Yes, they did resemble us a little, the 6-fingered humanoid type. But not completely. It looked like a miniature man. It wasn’t the great big head and back eyes of the Greys. It did not have ears like we do. It was just a little flap of tissue around a hole inside their skull. The nose looked a little like ours, but the mouth was much smaller.
IN THE FILM AND PHOTOGRAPHS RELEASED FROM THE AUTOPSY/DISSECTION – SOME PEOPLE REFER TO IT AS A DISSECTION BECAUSE IT WAS EXPLORATORY AS OPPOSED TO A TECHNICAL AUTOPSY – YOU CAN SEE SMALL EARS SET QUITE LOW ON A BEING'S HEAD.
You might call them ears, but they were just a little outcropping of flesh about half an inch around the ear hole. Like the beginning of an ear.
WAS THERE DISCUSSION AMONG THE TWENTY OF YOU ABOUT THE BLACK LENSES LIFTED OFF THE EYES? [ See about Santilli film in Part 1.]
Top: 6-fingered humanoid during autopsy/dissection in which thin, black “lenses”
covered both large eyes. Below: Large whites of eyes are revealed after the surgeon lifted
off black lenses. 16mm frames provided by Ray Santilli of Merlin Productions,
London, England © 1996 by Orbital Media Ltd.
In our discussion, we all said how baffled we were to see something like that. We really didn’t have that much of a technical discussion, only that we were so amazed at the internal organs and brain. There were stainless steel pans and the doctor was taking the organs and putting them in different pans. [ More details in upcoming Earthfiles parts to unfold.]
WAS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT ANY PROSTHETIC OR CRYSTAL-LIKE STRUCTURE REMOVED FROM INSIDE THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS? THAT WAS APPARENTLY SHOWN AS PART OF THE SANTILLI FILM ON TELEVISION.
I don’t really recall that, but it was 40 years ago.
IF THE AUTOPSY/DISSECTION FILM WAS SHOWN TO YOU IN 1957, TEN YEARS AFTER 1947, WAS THERE ANY KNOWLEDGE THEN AMONG THE INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES ABOUT WHAT THE ORIGIN OF THE 6-FINGERED TYPE IS?
At that time, I would say no. My boss and all were completely baffled about where they came from. While I was there, the whole three years (1957-1960), we never saw any information about where they came from or what they were doing here. My boss and I discussed why are they here? Why would they come to Earth? Where are they from? During that period of time, as far as I know, the government had no idea about why the 6-fingered ones were here or what they were trying to do.
FROM A MILITARY AND CIA POINT OF VIEW, WERE THE 6-FINGERED ONES CONSIDERED A THREAT?
I would say not really a threat, but there was an unresolved question. The CIA was working to increase the different radars around the United States so they could detect more of the alien craft coming in if they come from outer space and would be able to scramble jets to check them out - or shoot them down.
WERE YOU EVER GIVEN A DEBRIEFING BETWEEN 1957 TO 1960 WITH MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE AUTOPSY/DISSECTION FILM?
Nothing beyond the film. I just saw the autopsy on that particular 6-fingered being without any further explanation. We had a few domestic, but mostly foreign sightings that we went over. We had people overseas who would go interview people who had photographed aliens outside of their saucer.”