Part 6: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
Part 6: Army/CIA Unit Studied the Real UFO Blue Book Cases
© 2008 by Linda Moulton Howe
Copyright © 1999 - 2017 by Linda Moulton Howe.
All Rights Reserved.
This file is used with permission.
“We think the grey beings are friendly, but we are not sure.”
- “Col. Jim,” USAF, Area 51, Nellis AFB
October 3, 2008 Albuquerque, New Mexico - The following transcript concludes my third taped phone interview with Stein on June 1, 1998. I asked him if he would try to add more details about his August 1958 trip with his CIA boss and three other CIA colleagues (secret Project Blue Book analysis group) to Nellis AFB, Area 51, Groom Lake, Nevada.
Phone Interview # 3 (conclusion)
June 1, 1998
Stein: “We had a military flight from the southeast military base and we landed at Area 51 at the main landing strip. This was in August 1958. We got off the airplane and got into a small, 20-seater van, or minibus. We didn’t go into any buildings at the airport. They took us about ten miles away and stopped at the first special area. They did take us in where they had U-2s there at that time. We also saw the SR-71 Blackbird that they had and I think they were flying at that time.
We were there a short period of time and then we went back on the bus and went another eight miles to the third and final area where they had the highly classified materials. We stopped there and went into like an office area first. The Col. Jim met us there and took us on a tour. He took us first down a walkway and into a hangar area carved out of the mountain side – not extremely large.
WAS IT THE PAPOOSE MOUNTAIN RANGE?
I’m not sure.
HOW MANY WERE IN YOUR GROUP?
Six of us - my boss, my three CIA colleagues, Colonel Jim and me. Around us were other workers and scientists and office personnel working there.
WHAT WAS THE REASON THAT YOUR BOSS HAD YOU GO ON THE TOUR WITH THE COLONEL?
We were supposed to see the craft so that when we looked at photographs and tried to separate fake pictures from the real craft, this tour through real and different types of craft would be a help to us.
ALL OF YOU HAD PHONY NAME BADGES?
Well, my boss had his real name and Col. Jim had only the first name to guard his real identity. Smae for me and the other three other guys. I had a different name tag and a picture I. D. tags from the CIA with a false name.
YOU WERE ALWAYS WORKING UNDER AN ASSIGNED NAME FOR THE CIA?
Yes, always working under an assigned name that I made up myself. I was given the OK to pick my own name.
SO THE SIX OF YOU, INCLUDING COLONEL JIM, ARE WALKING INTO A CARVED OUT AREA OF A MOUNTAIN?
Discs of Alleged German
and Extraterrestrial Origins Inside Mountain
WHAT DID YOU SEE?
Once I got in, the first thing we did see were two small craft. They were the silver finish, not shiny and bright, but basically silver.
The two small craft were about 18 to 20 feet.
WERE YOU ALLOWED TO GO OVER AND TOUCH THEM?
No, we were on a walkway area and could not get down over to where the craft were sitting.
HOW MANY CRAFT COULD YOU SEE?
About seven, I think. There were some larger ones that were in the rear towards the end that we could see because they were probably 50 to 60 feet in diameter.
COULD YOU SEE ANY DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS ON THEM?
Yes, they were all disc-shaped, but some had larger bottom areas that extended down the same as the top extended up and they were in different colors. The larger ones in the rear were a dark grey color. Some of the other ones were lighter in color, like a light or medium brown. The larger ones in the rear with large top and bottom units were sitting on metal saw horses to hold them off the ground. The big one in the rear, I could see had some kind of gun or cannon on the bottom of it. The Colonel giving us the tour said the Germans called it a ‘death ray.’ Those big ones were supposedly built in Germany in the 1930s and a couple of the other sizes Col. Jim said were actually extraterrestrial.
DID THE COLONEL HAVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE PROPULSION SYSTEM OF THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRAFT?
That question was asked and he said the propulsion was electromagnetic anti-gravitational type engines. But they had other propulsion systems also on the other craft. The Colonel did not go into great detail on the other systems. Apparently, there was an anti-matter propulsion unit in one of them - something of that nature.
WERE YOU GIVEN ANY DETAILS ABOUT THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRAFT THAT WOULD LINK TO THE 6-FINGERED BEINGS OR THE GREY, SPINDLY TYPE?
No, the Colonel did not break that down for us. At the time, we did not think about asking that. After we returned from Area 51, my boss and I had a lot more questions we wish we would have asked.
TELL ME THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS: WHAT DID THE COLONEL SAY TO YOU ABOUT THE DISCS IN RELATIONSHIP TO WHERE YOU WERE GOING NEXT?
He stated that these were some of the craft we had picked up or captured in different parts of the world. So, apparently some of them were even brought in from overseas. I kind of gathered that most were captured within the United States.
He said we were going back out to the general office and smaller hangar area to see the extraterrestrial being they had there at the time.
From Discs to Non-Human Grey Being
WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
We went from the hangar area where the saucers were to outside on a covered walkway area that went into an office complex. It was a bunch of small rooms and offices. They had a special room for viewing that had one-way mirrors in it. We could look through the window into the small office. The being in there was unable to see us through the mirror because it was a mirror on his side.
They said we can go in and talk to this being. At that time, I chose not to go in. Years later, I wished I would have. But I chose not to go in because they did tell us that the being communicated only telepathically. He would not speak in any manner that we could hear with our ears. So, I chose to stay out and the other four people went in with the Colonel.
YOUR BOSS WITH THE THREE OTHER CIA GUYS WENT IN WITH COLONEL JIM?
DESCRIBE THE BEING.
The being was what the Colonel called him as a ‘Grey.’ He had a large head and bigger eyes, kind of slanted. He looked like he was wearing sunglasses because his eye lenses were real dark. The face slanted down to a pointed chin with just a little nose area and tiny slit of a mouth and just holes in the side of his head for ear openings.
ABOUT HOW TALL?
Probably about 5 feet high.
WHAT WAS THE TEXTURE OF HIS SKIN?
It was grayish-looking, but it looked fairly coarse – not like the smoothness of our skin – from where I was looking through the window.
WHAT WOULD YOU COMPARE THE SKIN TO IN TEXTURE OF SOMETHING I MIGHT KNOW?
Some areas of its skin were rough and warty-looking and some were sort of smooth, but still not like our skin. It looked more like a grainy canvas.
WHAT GREY COLOR? I would say a medium grey.
Medium gray # 808080.
COULD YOU SEE THE HANDS?
No, I didn’t. First of all, the being had its hands and arms behind its back and was sort of walking back and forth behind the little desk and chair area. He did sit down later on. I never did see his hands, so I don’t know how many fingers he had. The question came up later when we were flying home about how many fingers the being had and nobody saw, including my boss and the three other CIA men in the room with the being.
IT’S ODD THAT NO ONE ASKED TO SEE THE BEING’S HANDS GIVEN THAT YOU ALL HAD BEEN EXPOSED TO THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOID AUTOPSY FILM.
Yes. (laughs) But they had a time limit inside the room with the being, not more than ten minutes they gave for the mini-interview.
COULD YOU SEE ITS FEET? AND WAS IT WEARING ANY CLOTHES?
Yes, it had like civilian clothes on, like a little t-shirt or tank-top over the shoulders. And then there were trousers on, too. I never saw its feet.
YOU COULD NOT SEE THE FEET BECAUSE?
Because he was behind the desk area and all I could see was above his knees on up. It was like something they had put on him. It was loose and sloppy and didn’t look like anything naturally – no type of a flight suit.
SO THE BEING HAD BEEN DRESSED UP TO MEET THE GROUP OF HUMANS?
WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THE MEN AND THE BEING?
They asked questions. My boss started out asking questions about the being itself.
HOW DID HE AND THE OTHER MEN EXPLAIN THE TELEPATHIC PROCESS? WHAT DID THEY EXPERIENCE?
They said they were definitely not hearing anything through their ears. The ‘voice’ was right in the mind itself. They could put their fingers in their ears and could still hear the being. One of the men tried that – he plugged both ears to see if he could still hear the being and he could.
YOU COULD SEE THROUGH THE GLASS THAT ONE OF THE MEN PUT HIS FINGERS IN HIS EARS?
Yes, to see if he was actually hearing the being. He wasn’t. He said he heard the being’s voice right in his mind.
WHAT DID THE VOICE SOUND LIKE?
He said it was like an electronically reproduced voice. Now, we have computers that can talk to us and answer the phone. So like a computer voice. Back in the 1950s, that sort of thing was just beginning with computers. He said it did not sound like a human voice. It sounded like an electronic voice.
NEITHER MALE OR FEMALE?
WHEN THE MAN PUT HIS FINGERS IN HIS EARS, DID HE SEE ANY RESPONSE FROM THE BEING? OR DID THE BEING GIVE BACK A RESPONSE TELEPATHICALLY?
No, the being just answered the man’s question and he heard the telepathic voice just like he heard it before he put his fingers in his ears.
DID YOUR BOSS HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THAT HE MOST WANTED TO ASK THE BEING?
We had nothing planned. We didn’t know until we were in the hangar that they had an extraterrestrial being and we were going to be shown the being. We didn’t even know about seeing a being prior to about three minutes before we saw him in the room.
Stern Thought Alien Might Be A “Spirit Demon”
WHAT WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF TELEPATHIC COMMUNICATION THAT WOULD BOTHER YOU?
I didn’t want to get involved with the being telepathically because my thoughts about the alien at that time was a spirit demon manifested in a physical form that way and I didn’t want to mentally get involved with the spirit world that way.
WHY WOULD YOU HAVE JUMPED TO THAT CONCLUSION?
At that time, it was my thought because I didn’t think there were any other beings in the universe other than like angels and demons and fallen angels. To me, back in the 1950s, I thought it had to be something from God or Satan and in this case, I thought it was probably demonism. A lot of people that are schizophrenic hear voices talking to them in their mind, but not through their ears. A lot of that can be cured with electric shock treatment because it is demon possession. There is a spirit world and can contact people sometimes in that way.
IS THIS THE WAY YOU WERE BROUGHT UP AS A CHILD?
I was raised as a Lutheran, but we had problems with some of our neighbors. We had demon problems. We lived out in a rural area away from town and when a neighbor died, the starter in our car would suddenly start turning over even though the switch was not on. It started turning over and over like something was trying to run the battery down. We would go out there and no one was there. That’s how I got my impression of demons at work.
One time we had a little grinder for our equipment and in the middle of the night, we would hear the cycle grinder going. We’d look out the window and we could see the handle turning the grinder around, but no one was there.
THROUGHOUT NATURE ON THIS PLANET, HUMANS OFTEN THINK THEY COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR DOGS AND CATS TELEPATHICALLY WITHOUT SPEAKING.
It’s just something I had never run across before.
BUT IT DID NOT BOTHER THE OTHER MEN?
No, it didn’t. But at the time, I didn't want to take a chance on communicating with a demon.
6-Fingered Being and Grey, Spindly Being
CAN YOU COMPARE THE 6-FINGERED BEING TO THE GREY, SPINDLY ONE?
Yes, the one that we saw through the glass window and being interviewed was an entirely different structured being than the one we saw in the autopsy film. The grey one was frail and skinny and had the large head. But the one we saw in the film autopsy, the 6-fingered being, looked more like a miniature man – but not completely like us. The earlobes weren’t as big. There was a small amount of an earlobe. The face was more human-like. But the eyes, nose and mouth weren’t as big as ours, and they had wider shoulders, different body structure.
DID COL. JIM EXPLAIN WHERE THEY GOT THE SPINDLY, GREY BEING?
The grey being was involved in one of the crashes and was the only entity that survived from one of the UFOs the military had picked up. They wouldn’t tell us exactly from where. They just said, ‘Somewhere in New Mexico.’ Apparently they had the grey being for some time.
DID COL. JIM SPECIFY WHAT YEAR?
No, he did not. He made only one comment that they had the being for a long time, but nothing specific.
DID COL. JIM REFER TO THE BEING BY A NAME?
I didn’t hear them talk about any name. The Col. introduced my boss and the other men to the being by saying they were men from the East Coast who wanted to ask questions. The being seemed relaxed like it was used to interviews.
DID COL. JIM OR YOUR BOSS EVER USE THE PHRASE, ‘EXTRATERRESTRIAL BIOLOGICAL ENTITY’?
No, he did not. But he did use the term ‘extraterrestrial.’ And after we were out of the interview, the Col. just called him an ‘alien.’
DID THE COLONEL SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HAD BEEN LEARNED FROM THE BEING BEFORE THE INTERVIEW? I asked the Colonel that question – what have you learned from the being - but he would not give us any further information. It was like compartmentalized information.
YOU WERE NOT CLEARED TO KNOW THAT?
No. There were scientists who worked with him. Col. Jim wanted us to see what a real extraterrestrial being looked like so that when we got photos from overseas that could not be explained, we would know what a real extraterrestrial looked like to compare to photographs. That’s really all he gave us. Yes, there were scientists there working with the being, but was an entirely different project and we weren’t OK’d for that information, even though we had TOP SECRET WHITE HOUSE clearances.
More August 1958 CIA Meetings At Area 51
After the short 10-minute interview, we left the office the grey being was in and went out to a different area into a lunch room area. At that time, we had a light luncheon. Then we got back into the bus and went all the way back to the first area. Then they flew us back out to another city in Nevada, not Las Vegas. The next day we had meetings back over in Area 51. We were there for three more days. We were meeting with the other CIA people there out in the front where the main runway is. There were meeting rooms there and we had all the top CIA people from the Far East who came over for the meeting. We covered a lot of subjects – some were related to the extraterrestrials in terms of photographing and identifying the beings. But mostly the meetings were about other subjects.
THERE WAS A FORMAL CIA MEETING AT AREA 51 TO SPECIFICALLY DISCUSS GETTING MORE PHOTOGRAPHS OF BEINGS AND CRAFT?
Yes. The rest of the CIA in the meeting were from Hawaii and Pacific islands under our jurisdiction and beyond to Asia such as Laos, Cambodia and so on.
DID ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY THE SPINDLY, GREY BEINGS WERE HERE AND THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOIDS WERE HERE ALSO?
No. My boss asked Col. Jim about that before we got into the areas when we were still on the bus. But the Col. always had the same answer back in those days: ‘We think the grey beings are friendly, but we are not sure.’ They even stated they were not sure where they came from.
YET, THEY HAD THE GREY BEING WITH THE LARGE BLACK EYES AT AREA 51 FOR SOME TIME?
Yes. I think Col. Jim just gave us an answer to get rid of us on that question of the two different extraterrestrial types.
SO, EVEN WITH TOP SECRET WHITE HOUSE CLEARANCES, YOU, YOUR BOSS AND THE OTHER THREE CIA MEN DID NOT HAVE A CLEARANCE TO KNOW WHAT THE GREY BEING HAD COMMUNICATED?
That’s true. There were scientists working specifically with the aliens to get more information from them, but that was not information we needed. We just needed to be able to identify the alien if we saw photographs that came in from overseas.
Why Wouldn't TOP SECRET White House
Clearance Have Need-To-Know About
Non-Humans Origins and Agendas?
DID YOU AND YOUR BOSS TALK ABOUT HOW STRANGE IT WAS FOR YOU ALL TO HAVE AN ASSIGNMENT TO ANALYZE HIGHLY CLASSIFIED PROJECT BLUE BOOK FILES CONCERNING UFOS AND EXTRATERRESTRIALS AND YOU WOULD EVEN BE TAKEN TO AREA 51 NOT ONLY TO SEE DISCS, BUT TO SEE A BEING DESCRIBED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL, AND NONE OF YOU WOULD BE BRIEFED ON EXACTLY ALL THE INFORMATION THE GOVERNMENT KNEW FROM THE BEING?
This is basically the way the American government operates in a situation like this. When you go into a restaurant and buy a piece of pie, but you have no idea what the pie really looks like in the kitchen. The same way here: we had our specific things to do – to see the craft and being to compare to any photographs that civilians might send in from around the world regarding the saucer craft. That information went to Project Blue Book first for an explanation. If they didn’t have an answer, the information was sent to Fort Belvoir. Then, if the information was foreign from overseas, they would shoot it down to us at our southeastern military base.
IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD HAVE HELPED YOU ALL IN YOUR EFFORTS TO KNOW WHAT THE GREY BEING HAD COMMUNICATED ABOUT WHAT THEIR INTENTIONS WERE, WHAT THEY KNEW ABOUT THE 6-FINGERED HUMANOIDS?
Yes. When we came up with something that was totally unexplainable to ourselves, the information would go back to Fort Belvoir. We had photos of aliens outside of craft that looked like they were taking samples of bushes and shrubs and going back into the ship and leaving. We had films of those activities that we sent back to Fort Belvoir. And from Fort Belvoir, I think some of the information went to Area 51 instead of going back to Project Blue Book. So, probably the scientists at Area 51 working directly with the grey extraterrestrial/s showed the file information to the aliens and asked what other aliens were doing. I’m guessing that.
NO ONE EVER TOLD YOU AND YOUR BOSS, ‘THESE ARE 6-FINGERED HUMANOIDS AND THEY ARE HERE BECAUSE OF X. AND HERE ARE THE GREY, SPINDLY BEINGS AND THEY ARE HERE BECAUSE OF Z’?
No, they just gave us a vague answer that the aliens are here and most of the time they appear friendly, but probably not all of the time. And we have no idea where they are from. That’s what they gave us.
TODAY IN 1998, DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT UNDERSTANDS MORE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS?
Yes, probably, but who would be in that particular department now and what they are coming up with is hard for me to say. At that time, we were just given a brush off. Col. Jim and the scientists working with the grey alien probably had more information, but the Col. would not give us any more information.”